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Message
re: Aug 6th BI Deadline
Posted on 8/7/24 at 10:25 am to whatiknowsofar
Posted on 8/7/24 at 10:25 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
I meant in regards to how he'll approach the game and his playstyle
I’m sure he’ll talk about trying to win this season and how they have a great squad. I doubt hes specifically going to talk about changing his game and taking more 3s. I’ve just never seen him take full accountability for his playing style. To be fair, he does take accountability if he had bad performances. First ten games will give us the answer whether BI has bought in to taking more 3s.
0
Posted on 8/7/24 at 10:29 am to Dantheman504
quote:
No that's pretty much the point being made. BI is an all-star caliber player going into his prime.
Good lord. He made the AS team 3 years ago (as an alternate). His numbers have been basically the same for 4 years. He's been in his prime the whole time. He is what he is. He's not going to hit another level and get better. If he stays on the team this year, his numbers are going down. That's just math when you add more talent. How many teams in history have had 5 guys average 15+ppg?
quote:
BI isn't going to end up a freaking vet min guy and a team would EASILY offer him 30-35 before that.
25-30M isn't a vet minimum. That's the rate for a high level starter. That's what he is.
quote:
BI wants 45-50mil and the market is telling him no team CAN pay that right now. Its a coincidence of timing, its not just a simple "BI isn't worth shite" conversation.
You are worth what the market states you are worth. If he only gets 30M/year, that's his worth. Who said he isn't worth shite? Get out of your feelings.
quote:
If we the market is 30mil and BI wants 50mil then 40mil is a great value deal for both parties.
No thank you. That's not good us. We are trapped and start a fire sale in two years if we do that..
Posted on 8/7/24 at 10:42 am to brmark70816
quote:Don't recall him being an alternate.
He made the AS team 3 years ago (as an alternate).
Posted on 8/7/24 at 10:43 am to brmark70816
quote:
Good lord. He made the AS team 3 years ago (as an alternate). His numbers have been basically the same for 4 years. He's been in his prime the whole time. He is what he is
This is not true at all. If he "is what he is" or "cant get better" then we wouldn't be arguing about him shooting 3's and playing different.
His defense has also improved whether you want to discount that from your argument or not.
We know his defense has improved and we know that we can get a better BI if he shoots the 3.
Couple those facts with a 23/5.5/5.5 stat line the last 5 years on the Pels and you don't think this player is worth 30mil easily?
This post was edited on 8/7/24 at 10:44 am
Posted on 8/7/24 at 10:47 am to brmark70816
quote:
25-30M isn't a vet minimum. That's the rate for a high level starter. That's what he is.
He currently makes 37mil. The dude had a BAD year and almost averaged 21pts/ 6ast/ 5reb....
Let me repeat that: The guy who currently had a bad year with 21/6/5 stat line and makes 37mil should be valued at 25mil??
Lol
Posted on 8/7/24 at 10:49 am to Dantheman504
quote:
This is not true at all. If he "is what he is" or "cant get better" then we wouldn't be arguing about him shooting 3's and playing different.
Problem is we been asking him to shoot 3s and play different for the last 3 years and since that all-star birth in regards to him improving hes kind of stagnated. I think you need to be honest and ask yourself if BI at 26 is some great ascending talent or just a pretty good player and this is who he is.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 10:58 am to NOSHAU
quote:Hopefully not.
Hoping for something closer to $35 million/year.
There's no realistic amount we can give BI that is good for this team.
It's time to move on and begin starting Trey in BI's spot.
Trade him before the season starts at all costs for any return we can get. That's the play.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 10:59 am to shel311
Agreed. Because the alternative is that we let him go for literally nothing next year.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 11:01 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
Trade him before the season starts at all costs for any return we can get. That's the play.
I highly doubt that happens now. And I think you know that too shel.
quote:
Because the alternative is that we let him go for literally nothing next year.
I am not ready to say that either.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 11:05 am to Epic Cajun
quote:
Agreed, but IMO there are only ~20 #1 players. Sure there are other players who by default are a teams #1 option, but they aren't true #1 players. BI is a mid #2 option.
I agree, but I was responding to this comment
quote:
Who is going to be the team to give him that? He will have to be that team's #1 or #2.
He's clearly a #2 in a league with 30 teams.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 11:08 am to shel311
quote:
Trade him before the season starts at all costs for any return we can get. That's the play.
It's more likely than not we will be taking back comparable salary, at that point (too few teams with that pure cap room).
So we cool taking back someone like Ayton? Because we'll have to take back some combination of salaries close to his current one, and the players will likely be worse than BI.
Kessler/Collins is another option.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 11:13 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
I highly doubt that happens now
Why? I mean late off-season trades happen often. Its been reported Jazz have interest. Not really sure why you think that door is closed?
Posted on 8/7/24 at 11:30 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Its been reported Jazz have interest. Not really sure why you think that door is closed?
Do you really think Griffin is going to trade with Danny Ainge? The market for ingram is gone, warriors pulled out, and the Jazz have us by the balls when it comes to compensation.
I bet ainge is asking for ingram and a 1st for ANYTHING we would want from them. Kessler/Collins/etc.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 11:35 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
Why? I mean late off-season trades happen often. Its been reported Jazz have interest. Not really sure why you think that door is closed?
Specifically with the Jazz. Donovan Mitchell didn’t get traded to the Cavs till September 1.
The most likely scenario is BI starting the year on the team, but the Aug. 6 deadline doesn’t change much, just that we can’t trade him at the deadline if we extend. The scenario where we extend and then trade him at the deadline was always one of the least likely outcomes.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 11:35 am to SlowFlowPro
I think Ayton is the only realistic option but I don't think they're going to look to move him until Clingan supplants him in the starting line up. A BI/Ayton deal will probably the best move at some point during the year if they really want to add a quality big.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 11:37 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Who is going to be the team to give him that? He will have to be that team's #1 or #2.
He's clearly a #2 in a league with 30 teams.
Correct. He is a #2 in a league with 30 teams but his best value is #3 on a good team.
He is worth #2 on a bad team but ideally needs to get paid #3 on a good team to be a valued asset in a trade.
This doesn't mean that BI is worth less than a #3 or that he doesn't have more value then those guys.
If he's your "worst #2" or "best #3" then his future potential is closer to a best #2 > worst #3 IMO.
Again he had a bad year and knows he needs to shoot the 3. If his absolute "worst value" is a #1 3rd option then he is worth 30+ mil.
I don't think he is a great #3 at that price for us but that doesn't mean its bad value.
I've never seen a 20/5/5 player that's NOT on a max contract get this much heat
We went from "BI isn't worth the max" all the way to "I wouldn't give him more than 25mil"
It's kinda wild
This post was edited on 8/7/24 at 11:39 am
Posted on 8/7/24 at 11:42 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Do you really think Griffin is going to trade with Danny Ainge? The market for ingram is gone, warriors pulled out, and the Jazz have us by the balls when it comes to compensation. I bet ainge is asking for ingram and a 1st for ANYTHING we would want from them. Kessler/Collins/etc.
I think Griffin will trade with whoever. This whole “no one will trade with Ainge” is just made up stuff by this board. Every team in the league has had an advantage with us in trade talks with BI- thats nothing new. It seems like your closing the door based off some random people’s opinions on Ainge as a GM.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 11:47 am to Pels_Yaz
quote:
It seems like your closing the door based off some random people’s opinions on Ainge as a GM.
Or I'm just going off the reputation of both gms echoed by analysts/non biased media folks and reports.
He wanted multiple firsts for Kessler. Kessler. Give me a break lol
Posted on 8/7/24 at 11:59 am to whatiknowsofar
quote:
From a pure talent standpoint our top 6 players are as good as any in the league
For sure, BI is not a max player due to his availability, but certainly is a max player in terms of talent. It is unfortunate for BI and Zion for that matter that they have been miscast as primary facilitators the past 3 years as neither can hold up to the physical demands of the position, but that’s what the Pels asked them to do.
Regardless of the miscast roles, the team has improved every year culminating in 49 wins last year and now some on this board act as if his contributions had nothing to do with it and can be easily replaced. I’ve been critical of Griff’s roster construction, but he certainly knows value and is not a knee jerk reactionist.
I’m optimistic about the season as the Pels have high end talent along with a number of promising players and coaches that are now seasoned. Looking forward to talking about the current team’s prospects instead of rehashing ill conceived narratives and fan fantasies.
Posted on 8/7/24 at 4:00 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:
Or I'm just going off the reputation of both gms echoed by analysts/non biased media folks and reports.
Gotchya. You mean the same analysts/non biased media folks who feel BI should be traded and our center situation is an utter mess. I find it interesting when we pick and choose to listen to these non biased media folks.
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