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Message
re: Hawkins looking good so far
Posted on 10/29/23 at 3:47 pm to shel311
Posted on 10/29/23 at 3:47 pm to shel311
This is where things like scoring efficiency can break down.
Let's say Ingram took more 3s, but because they aren't high quality his % drops to 33%, and because he's taking less 2s but maybe better ones, his 2pt % jumps to 49%.
Is it still efficient in that scenario for him to keep shooting 3s? (the answer in this particular case is the efficiency is about equal, but I think you get the point)
Shot quality matters a TON. Asking him to shoot more 3s just to shoot them doesn't help the team. He needs to shoot the quality looks at 3 he gets. Hopefully that is more with a healthy Zion, but it will never be as many as when he first got here because teams guard him as a legit scorer now.
Let's say Ingram took more 3s, but because they aren't high quality his % drops to 33%, and because he's taking less 2s but maybe better ones, his 2pt % jumps to 49%.
Is it still efficient in that scenario for him to keep shooting 3s? (the answer in this particular case is the efficiency is about equal, but I think you get the point)
Shot quality matters a TON. Asking him to shoot more 3s just to shoot them doesn't help the team. He needs to shoot the quality looks at 3 he gets. Hopefully that is more with a healthy Zion, but it will never be as many as when he first got here because teams guard him as a legit scorer now.
This post was edited on 10/29/23 at 3:54 pm
2
Posted on 10/29/23 at 4:01 pm to bonethug0180
quote:
but it will never be as many as when he first got here because teams guard him as a legit scorer now.
I will have to disagree with you here because BI passes up multiple wide open 3’s a game just to dribble inside and shoot a contested midrange.
Nobody is saying he needs to become a chucker from 3, if he just shoots the wide open ones the defense gives him he will be at that 6-7 a game number everyone is screaming for.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 4:18 pm to Macintosh
quote:
Right Hawkins has played fine but it’s two fricking games lmao. It’s like people questioning scoots game after two games in the other thread. Some posters are just bored Guys scores 9 points, and people are ready to run to TD saying “see I told you so”
What a weird fricking post. Why would any Pels fan be fine if Hawkins sucked just so you could be justified shitting all over a rookie in his first preseason? It’s just fricking sad. Don’t even call yourself a fan
Posted on 10/29/23 at 4:26 pm to bonethug0180
quote:Depends on on the volume, the eFG% will answer the question, as well as the TS% bringing in FT% as well.
Let's say Ingram took more 3s, but because they aren't high quality his % drops to 33%, and because he's taking less 2s but maybe better ones, his 2pt % jumps to 49%.
Is it still efficient in that scenario for him to keep shooting 3s? (the answer in this particular case is the efficiency is about equal, but I think you get the point)
To your general question though, if he shoots more 3s but doesn't get more efficient, then he's just volume scorer who isn't terribly efficient, which can be an issue if we're trying to max this team out.
quote:You're correct but it's a also a given this is what is being referred to. BI is passing up too many open 3s. Not just shoot 3s to hit a certain number of attempts
Shot quality matters a TON. Asking him to shoot more 3s just to shoot them doesn't help the team. He needs to shoot the quality looks at 3 he gets
This post was edited on 10/29/23 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 10/29/23 at 5:52 pm to shel311
I agree with the people saying he needs to shoot the open ones, but he may feel out of rhythm, which I can relate to. Sometimes you catch the ball, and even if you are wide open it just doesn't feel like you'll make the shot.
Not saying that's 100% what's going on, but sometimes you just trust your gut before shooting.
Not saying that's 100% what's going on, but sometimes you just trust your gut before shooting.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:05 pm to bonethug0180
quote:
I agree with the people saying he needs to shoot the open ones, but he may feel out of rhythm, which I can relate to. Sometimes you catch the ball, and even if you are wide open it just doesn't feel like you'll make the shot. Not saying that's 100% what's going on, but sometimes you just trust your gut before shooting.
And this is why he will always remain an inefficient scorer, and our ceiling will be limited because of that.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:11 pm to Soggymoss
efficiency with a guy like Ingram I think can be a bit of fools gold. He’s a midrange scorer and can hang with the best of them doing only that. We have all seen how he can swing a game by making tough middie after tough middie.
he’s also a devastating passer from his spots. We’d all love to see him take and make more threes but maybe that’s not who he is. He’s not Durant
Zion is so fricking efficient that he can damn near eliminate empty possessions on his own. Let’s let Ingram figure it out on his own
he’s also a devastating passer from his spots. We’d all love to see him take and make more threes but maybe that’s not who he is. He’s not Durant
Zion is so fricking efficient that he can damn near eliminate empty possessions on his own. Let’s let Ingram figure it out on his own
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:14 pm to Macintosh
quote:
Guys scores 9 points, and people are ready to run to TD saying “see I told you so”
I’ll admit that I thought he’d be completely a non factor on this team. Him getting 3 good looks from 3 off the bench is HUGE. Doing it game two is impressive given the expectation that he wouldn’t sniff minutes.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:20 pm to cgrand
quote:
efficiency with a guy like Ingram I think can be a bit of fools gold. He’s a midrange scorer and can hang with the best of them doing only that. We have all seen how he can swing a game by making tough middie after tough middie. he’s also a devastating passer from his spots. We’d all love to see him take and make more threes but maybe that’s not who he is. He’s not Durant
I think a few things can be true:
1. It’d be better if BI could take / make more 3s
2. BI shooting more 3s is not optimal for him.
3. We can still be a great team without BI being an efficient player.
I think we can agree that BI is not an especially efficient scorer. If we expect BI to be the best player on the team, that’s a problem. Luckily, we don’t have that issue as Zion is our best player and very efficient. We also have some potentially highly efficient players in Trey and off ball CJ. So I think we’re fine but I don’t think BI can ever be the best player on a contender.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:25 pm to higgsBoson
I agree with everything you said.
Back to hawkins if he can shoot he should play. Remember that buddy had a godawful 1st half of his rookie year…it go so bad at home games he got scared to shoot
now look at him. If Hawkins can let it fly without fear and play a little defense he will be valuable (much more so than Matt Ryan)
Back to hawkins if he can shoot he should play. Remember that buddy had a godawful 1st half of his rookie year…it go so bad at home games he got scared to shoot
now look at him. If Hawkins can let it fly without fear and play a little defense he will be valuable (much more so than Matt Ryan)
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:32 pm to Soggymoss
quote:
I’ll stay shitting on Ingram because for us to be our best he needs to take 6-7 3’s a game.
Acting like there is a requisite number of threes to be taken by BI per game is just asinine.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:35 pm to higgsBoson
quote:
We can still be a great team without BI being an efficient player.
You cannot be a great team when your leading shot taker is inefficient as a scorer.
You cannot be a great team with an inefficient scorer in your top 2 players. Look back at all the great teams in NBA history, none of them had an inefficient scorer in their top players.
Yes Zion can carry us with his amazing efficiency, but that will not get this team to their full potential.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:40 pm to Soggymoss
You’re framing this argument poorly. If you say he should be more efficient, I’d agree with you. But you’re losing me when you say he’s inefficient.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:44 pm to TotesMcGotes
“You’re framing this argument poorly.”
- not the first time either.
- not the first time either.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:49 pm to TotesMcGotes
RJ Barrett has a higher PER than BI. Zion’s is almost double.
BI’s shot selection is what brings his PER down so much, and what makes him an inefficient scorer. It’s been said about him for years.
BI’s shot selection is what brings his PER down so much, and what makes him an inefficient scorer. It’s been said about him for years.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:51 pm to TotesMcGotes
quote:He was factually below league average scoring efficiency last season.
You’re framing this argument poorly. If you say he should be more efficient, I’d agree with you. But you’re losing me when you say he’s inefficient.
And he's generally hovered around that average.
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:51 pm to Soggymoss
Kobe Bryant was an extremely inefficient player. He was balanced by one of the most efficient players in nba history and they won plenty
ingrams not Kobe but you get the point. At this stage of his career I think it’s best to play to his strengths and let others do what he can’t. Whether that’s worth 50MM on his next deal is another conversation entirely
ingrams not Kobe but you get the point. At this stage of his career I think it’s best to play to his strengths and let others do what he can’t. Whether that’s worth 50MM on his next deal is another conversation entirely
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:52 pm to Pels_Yaz
quote:
”You’re framing this argument poorly.” - not the first time either.
LOL here come the randoms with their takes
Posted on 10/29/23 at 6:53 pm to cgrand
Ingram was the bud driver after Zion went down. Especially with a hurt CJ. That means he was taking all the low shot clock and more difficult shots which drops efficiency. Anyone who actually watched the games last season especially late last season saw how good Ingram could be
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