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re: Rate These Duos
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:23 am to corndeaux
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:23 am to corndeaux
quote:
How quickly can you get legit basketball operations up and running?
What plan do you have for making the team competitive year over year?
I didn’t care for some of Gentry’s rotations at times which I felt ultimately cost us close games.
Over the last two years the Pels brought in Cousins, Mirotic, and Randle to complement AD. I also think Payton was a solid player to add to the rotation. Payton, Holiday, and Moore should be a solid guard rotation with guys like Jackson and Clark also being small contributors. One of the major flaws of the team is not having a wing worth a damn to guard anyone in the league. We have played smaller players out of position on the wing that end up just making the entire perimeter average at best.
My only concern is that AD is to be one of the top players in the league and get paid like he is. There are times he seems to disappear for stretches. His end of the night stats look great, but disappearing for stretches completely aids in losing close games. I would just hope if his offensive game is not clicking he is hyper focused on the other end and vice versa. I feel Jrue always has one area of his game mainly clicking at all times.
I think people can be critical of the organization, but I would not remove blame from AD. I feel he did not analyze it as the big picture. The big picture would say he had a very close situation and that it didn’t need to be blown up. Changing his agent to Paul was a stupid move as I feel he probably could have pushed for the improved change with an agent with his best interest in mind. You can not say the Pelicans haven’t made strong moves to improve over the last couple of years.
1
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:45 am to Crewz
Harden/CP3
AD/Jrue
PG/Russ
Dame/CJ
Jokic/Murray
Mitchell/Gobert
That's a really tough exercise and wouldn't argue with too much confidence for a couple of those going up or down 2-3 spots.
I also think some may be doing a little prisoner of the moment stuff with Dame/CJ. Those are the same 2 dudes who got swept last season by NOP with Jrue punking Dame for 4 games.
AD/Jrue
PG/Russ
Dame/CJ
Jokic/Murray
Mitchell/Gobert
That's a really tough exercise and wouldn't argue with too much confidence for a couple of those going up or down 2-3 spots.
I also think some may be doing a little prisoner of the moment stuff with Dame/CJ. Those are the same 2 dudes who got swept last season by NOP with Jrue punking Dame for 4 games.
This post was edited on 4/25/19 at 9:46 am
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:49 am to Crewz
quote:
The point differential said they were a 45-47 win team.
Except they didn't win 45 games, and one injury to an extremely marginal player in Payton sent the entire team into a tailspin.
Good teams can easily survive injuries to marginal players. The Pels were so poorly constructed last year that they couldn't survive even the slightest bit of adversity.
You can always say well IF this happened and IF this happened then they might have won this. But they didn't. They sucked.
This is a team that needs a drastic revamp and to fix some serious depth and fit issues, not put a bandaid on it.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:51 am to Colonel Flagg
quote:
Over the last two years the Pels brought in Cousins, Mirotic, and Randle to complement AD. I also think Payton was a solid player to add to the rotation. Payton, Holiday, and Moore should be a solid guard rotation with guys like Jackson and Clark also being small contributors. One of the major flaws of the team is not having a wing worth a damn to guard anyone in the league. We have played smaller players out of position on the wing that end up just making the entire perimeter average at best.
My only concern is that AD is to be one of the top players in the league and get paid like he is. There are times he seems to disappear for stretches. His end of the night stats look great, but disappearing for stretches completely aids in losing close games. I would just hope if his offensive game is not clicking he is hyper focused on the other end and vice versa. I feel Jrue always has one area of his game mainly clicking at all times.
The one thing of the Demps area that made me nuts. We couldn't even get an average wing. That's all we needed and couldn't even get that.
But the issue with AD having quiet stretches is also due to the fact he is a big who can't run the point. Its such a ball handlers league right now
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:54 am to htran90
The way to construct a team around AD is to basically have an elite ballhandler/distributor and then 3 guys that can bomb it from 3.
The guy that can create can get AD the ball in creative places for him to score, and 3 guys that can knock down 3s or have the gravity at least, can spread the floor allowing Davis to own and destroy the paint.
Demps was a fricking idiot with his roster construction.
The guy that can create can get AD the ball in creative places for him to score, and 3 guys that can knock down 3s or have the gravity at least, can spread the floor allowing Davis to own and destroy the paint.
Demps was a fricking idiot with his roster construction.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:57 am to Crewz
Agree on perimeter help.
I don't think it has to be a big move right away. But I'd be curious to see moves that aren't just year to year deckchair shuffling around a Davis/Holiday core.
So that's continuity and internal improvement. Nurkic took a leap. They staggered McCollum/Lillard less than they had in previous seasons. Etc
I want to see the Pels actually build those things rather than pay lip service to them.
I don't think it has to be a big move right away. But I'd be curious to see moves that aren't just year to year deckchair shuffling around a Davis/Holiday core.
quote:
What big moves did Portland make to go from being swept to possibly going to the WCF?
So that's continuity and internal improvement. Nurkic took a leap. They staggered McCollum/Lillard less than they had in previous seasons. Etc
I want to see the Pels actually build those things rather than pay lip service to them.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:21 am to corndeaux
I think we have to ask ourselves two things:
1) What does it mean when we say "build the right way"?
And then
2) Do we have the time to build "the right way" around AD at this point?
To me, building the right way is: Establishing a great culture, drafting really well, letting those players develop with the right coaching and minutes, be organic with roster construction, and once you've established yourself as a team that looks like it could be on the upswing, make a key smart free agent acquisition.
I think we are years and years away from all of that coming together. I just don't know that we have the time with AD to put all of that together. If we would have started the process 3 years ago then yeah. But now?
1) What does it mean when we say "build the right way"?
And then
2) Do we have the time to build "the right way" around AD at this point?
To me, building the right way is: Establishing a great culture, drafting really well, letting those players develop with the right coaching and minutes, be organic with roster construction, and once you've established yourself as a team that looks like it could be on the upswing, make a key smart free agent acquisition.
I think we are years and years away from all of that coming together. I just don't know that we have the time with AD to put all of that together. If we would have started the process 3 years ago then yeah. But now?
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:38 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
To me, building the right way is: Establishing a great culture, drafting really well, letting those players develop with the right coaching and minutes, be organic with roster construction, and once you've established yourself as a team that looks like it could be on the upswing, make a key smart free agent acquisition.
I think we are years and years away from all of that coming together. I just don't know that we have the time with AD to put all of that together. If we would have started the process 3 years ago then yeah. But now?
You can build for the future and still compete now. As others have said, it would not be overly difficult to retool this team around Jrue/AD to get back in the playoffs by bringing in the right complementary players. You can also build out the franchise's infrastructure in terms of scouting, analytics, medical, training, player development, G league..etc.
Griff's big thing is building a sustainable culture of winning by putting the right tools/people in place long term. We can use our draft picks, develop young talent, and make smart signings whether AD stays or not.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 2:53 pm to Crewz
If the teams would then be able to be structured soundly around these players Id go..
Harden/Cp3
Davis/Jrue
Jokic/Murray
Russ/George
Dame/CJ
Mitchell/Gobert
Harden/Cp3
Davis/Jrue
Jokic/Murray
Russ/George
Dame/CJ
Mitchell/Gobert
Posted on 4/25/19 at 2:57 pm to shel311
I like this, very close to mine. Main reason i go jokic and murray over dame,cj or russ george is bc Jokic and murray still have room for growth. The other guys are great but they are who they are at this point.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 3:05 pm to HEAVYtiger23
I would not assume much more growth for Murray and Jokic
Large growth happens when a guy has amazing raw traits and they still need to catch up in the skills department. These guys have their skills. And definitely don't have the raw traits. And you don't improve on raw traits.
So,skilled guys without insane raw traits grow at a marginal rate at a certain point. They don't make big jumps. This is one of the reasons I have a ceiling of Granger on Tatum as opposed to thinking he can make leaps like a Paul George or a Gianni's did in their early 20s
Large growth happens when a guy has amazing raw traits and they still need to catch up in the skills department. These guys have their skills. And definitely don't have the raw traits. And you don't improve on raw traits.
So,skilled guys without insane raw traits grow at a marginal rate at a certain point. They don't make big jumps. This is one of the reasons I have a ceiling of Granger on Tatum as opposed to thinking he can make leaps like a Paul George or a Gianni's did in their early 20s
Posted on 4/25/19 at 3:13 pm to SLafourche07
The real duo id really want would be Jrue and Dame bc i just like them both a lot and theyd fit perfectly together but if i could mix match i also like the duos of..
Dame/Davis
Dame/George
George/Davis
I like Dames attitude the most to lead my team
Dame/Davis
Dame/George
George/Davis
I like Dames attitude the most to lead my team
This post was edited on 4/25/19 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 4/25/19 at 3:23 pm to SLafourche07
My bad. It wasn’t to you, just clicked a random point to respond at. saw a lot of people rating Dame/CJ so high.
AD is better than Dame
Jrue is better than CJ
But with AD being a big man he can’t have the same impact as Dame. Though a guard or point wing + a great big will have a higher ceiling than a good guard duo.
AD is better than Dame
Jrue is better than CJ
But with AD being a big man he can’t have the same impact as Dame. Though a guard or point wing + a great big will have a higher ceiling than a good guard duo.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 3:31 pm to Crewz
Curry/klay
AD/Jrue
Adame/CJ
Jokic/Murray
Gobert/Mitchell
Russ/ph
In that order. Russ simply does not know how to win meaningful games. For that, he is last.
AD/Jrue
Adame/CJ
Jokic/Murray
Gobert/Mitchell
Russ/ph
In that order. Russ simply does not know how to win meaningful games. For that, he is last.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 3:36 pm to Crewz
ok thats a good point, I can mostly agree with that for Jokic. But murray i think can still hone his skills a bit by becoming even more of a playmaker, take better shots as he settles too often or lets his confidence get the best of him at times, and up his 3pt percentage. Not that hes a bad 3 pt shooter now he shoots 36 for his career but he shot better in college and hes a knockdown free throw shooter so ive been expecting him to hover closer 40 percent than he has. I think if he can do those things he has career trajectory similar to Bradley Beal but less explosive. 23 5 and 5 i think is attainable for him for sure
Posted on 4/25/19 at 8:30 pm to Crewz
Harden/Cp3
Russ/Westbrook
AD/Jrue
Dame/CJ
Russ/Westbrook
AD/Jrue
Dame/CJ
Posted on 4/25/19 at 9:51 pm to Lester Earl
MM was right, no D from Denver duo tonight leads to a loss.
Posted on 4/25/19 at 10:07 pm to FMtTXtiger
They are a fine duo. But they have no defensive capability and upside is limited due to lack of athleticism, quick step, etc.
Posted on 4/26/19 at 3:54 pm to Crewz
quote:
For one game, I'd probably go Harden and fully healthy Paul George. For next few years, I'd probably go Lillard/AD
Why the switch? In terms of age, George and Lillard will be 29 entering next season and Harden will be 30.
AD is the young buck - he will be 26 entering next season. Is it a matter of who you think pairs best with AD?
Posted on 4/27/19 at 10:05 am to Fun Bunch
Agree on the "build the right way" thoughts.
Two recent reads on this:
Nets Went From NBA Laughing Stock to One of the League's Most Respected Obviously homerish (and probably a little too high on returning talent+FA chances for BK), but the "not skipping steps" and examples of good culture parts are the highlight for me.
Ziller on the Spurs after they beat Denver in game 6. Obviously only one Pop, but the institutional competence is worth contemplating.
Agree with diagnosis of Davis and the time to build around him. Maybe they can make it work, but, I have a tough time envisioning something that can be done in the immediate future that entices him to stay long term if he values competing over $$
Two recent reads on this:
Nets Went From NBA Laughing Stock to One of the League's Most Respected Obviously homerish (and probably a little too high on returning talent+FA chances for BK), but the "not skipping steps" and examples of good culture parts are the highlight for me.
Ziller on the Spurs after they beat Denver in game 6. Obviously only one Pop, but the institutional competence is worth contemplating.
quote:
they always know what they are supposed to be doing, and the Spurs’ system on both ends is always designed to support the players’ strengths.
quote:
Both of these things come back down to this, the sole constants in the franchise over the past two and a half decades: the roster always makes sense, and the coaching is impeccable. When the roster has All-NBA-caliber players, the Spurs will be a title contender. When the roster has a fringe all-star or two, the Spurs will be competitive in the playoffs. It’s clockwork, and it should be celebrated. All hail the Spurs, the anti-trend, ultra well-managed NBA team that will apparently never go away.
Agree with diagnosis of Davis and the time to build around him. Maybe they can make it work, but, I have a tough time envisioning something that can be done in the immediate future that entices him to stay long term if he values competing over $$
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