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Zion HAS expanded his offensive game - I don't get that criticism
Posted on 10/30/24 at 3:32 pm
Posted on 10/30/24 at 3:32 pm
Toward the end of last year a little, but definitely this season and last night, he has greatly expanded his offensive game.
I keep reading he's exactly the same as 6 years ago and that's bullshite.
Dude was hitting pull up mid range shots, jump hooks, spin fall aways and even a 3 last night.
He deserves criticism for his sloppy turn overs, ball handling, stamina, etc.
But the dude isn't just driving into a wall anymore and a layup or nothin. He owned Draymond.
I keep reading he's exactly the same as 6 years ago and that's bullshite.
Dude was hitting pull up mid range shots, jump hooks, spin fall aways and even a 3 last night.
He deserves criticism for his sloppy turn overs, ball handling, stamina, etc.
But the dude isn't just driving into a wall anymore and a layup or nothin. He owned Draymond.
5
Posted on 10/30/24 at 3:38 pm to ghost2most
quote:Is it really an improvement to replace an efficient shot with inefficiency shots that make him less efficient overall while also not increasing his scoring?
Dude was hitting pull up mid range shots, jump hooks, spin fall aways
I'd be more than happy for a somewhat small dip in efficiency that comes with Zion averaging 30ppg but I fail to see how it's an improvement to score less and also less efficiently than before.
quote:He made 4 3s in the 1st game he ever played. I don't see how 1 singular 3pt shot made is an indication of improvement.
and even a 3 last night.
This post was edited on 10/30/24 at 3:38 pm
Posted on 10/30/24 at 3:41 pm to shel311
quote:
Is it really an improvement to replace an efficient shot with inefficiency shots that make him less efficient overall while also not increasing his scoring?
Yall have been crying for him to develop a shot. He does and looks good doing it and now he gets criticized for that too?
Complain about his d, his conditioning, his injuries, but his offensive game is expanding nicely.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 3:47 pm to ghost2most
He still doesn't move at all off the ball. That's a big part of his issues fitting with BI. He usually doesn't even involve himself in the actions when BI has the ball, which is absurd. He just kind of waits around for the ball to run his own iso.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 4:00 pm to shel311
quote:
really an improvement to replace an efficient shot with inefficiency shots that make him less efficient overall while also not increasing his scoring?
Every shot outside of a layup or 3s with volume is less efficient shel. We've been begging him to take shots he took last night to preserve his body, and he gave you 30 on 63% fg. That's still ridiculously efficient. Not sure why you think it's not.
Now if you think the first two zion games are what he's going to be doing that's one thing, but i think we get waaaaaay more of last night Zion than first two games back from flu Zion.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 4:09 pm to ghost2most
quote:
Dude was hitting pull up mid range shots, jump hooks, spin fall aways and even a 3 last night.
He needs to hit that mid range shot when ther'es no one in front of him and it's well inside the free throw line. He has been taking that shot a bit more, and needs to continue.
The spinning jump hook or whatever isn't a good shot. They went in last night. Most nights they won't. And I do think Zion has an unbelievable touch around the basket to make shots, but these off balanced shots from 8-10' out or not good shots for anyone.
He made a 3, and he almost airballed a 3. His 3 point shot still looks bad. If he's going to take a 3, I'd like it to be from the top of the key, not the wing.
quote:
But the dude isn't just driving into a wall anymore and a layup or nothin.
Yes he is, and it's why he turns the ball over so much and why he makes piss poor passes to the perimeter from inside the paint. He had 3 charges last night.
quote:
He owned Draymond
And yes he certainly did, which is fricking impressive.
He hasn't expanded his offensive game at all in 6 years. It's still mostly the same exact offensive game of slowly walk it up the court, lazily run some set that won't work, then try to go one on one with someone from a standstill.
Until he gets his arse in shape and understands that he needs to get himself and the ball down the court before the wall can get set up, he's always going to have nights where it's a struggle to score b/c teams are going to pack the paint against him like always. He's yet to understand when he's got just 1 or two guys back and the rest aren't yet set up defensively, that's when you put your head down and force the issue at the rim. Get to the rim before the defense sets up.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 4:20 pm to ghost2most
quote:This doesn't make sense.
Yall have been crying for him to develop a shot. He does and looks good doing it and now he gets criticized for that too?
The entire point of developing a more well round scoring game is to score more points.
I will ask you the same exact question, what good does it do to develop a shot if you were be less efficient AND score less points per game? Honest question, how does that help him or the team?
Posted on 10/30/24 at 4:23 pm to whatiknowsofar
quote:Again, the entire point of that is to score MORE points per game than before, not less.
Every shot outside of a layup or 3s with volume is less efficient shel.
The sample size is early, sure. But the point is, I'm not going to crown him until he shows that the ability to score in different ways leads to positive results.
I'll just keep repeating. He's scoring less and doing so left efficiently. Same as every Zion argument I ever make, let's take the wait and see approach and see it actually happening before crowning him.
And for the record, it HAS to increase scoring. Even if it gets to 24 or 25ppg being less efficient, that's not good. Remember, year 2 Zion was 27ppg on 60% from the field. He's going to have to get near or over 30 and slightly less efficient for his improvements to be impactful.
Posted on 10/30/24 at 4:28 pm to Galactic Inquisitor
quote:
He still doesn't move at all off the ball. That's a big part of his issues fitting with BI. He usually doesn't even involve himself in the actions when BI has the ball, which is absurd. He just kind of waits around for the ball to run his own iso.
Yes, this is extremely noticeable and needs to be corrected. NBA is pretty bad about this overall but it's very obvious with Z
Posted on 10/30/24 at 5:30 pm to ghost2most
If he can get a reliable mid range game and keep them honest shooting the wide open 3 then the sky is the limit for him.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 11:59 am to ghost2most
Zion's rim rate by season has gone down consistently
84% - rookie year
78%
72%
65%
37% - this season
But again, this does us no good because his scoring pee game and TS% has gone down for 4 straight seasons.
The entire point to expanding your game is to score in more ways, maybe slightly less efficiently but the advantage is to score more.
What this insinuates is teams have figured some things out and also he's just no longer able to get to the rim like he wants.
84% - rookie year
78%
72%
65%
37% - this season
But again, this does us no good because his scoring pee game and TS% has gone down for 4 straight seasons.
The entire point to expanding your game is to score in more ways, maybe slightly less efficiently but the advantage is to score more.
What this insinuates is teams have figured some things out and also he's just no longer able to get to the rim like he wants.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 12:04 pm to shel311
quote:
What this insinuates is teams have figured some things out and also he's just no longer able to get to the rim like he wants.
It's that but also his degrading bounce.
There was a play in the third quarter last night where he beat his man off the dribble and had an open lane to the basket. He would've hammered that down in past years but instead he opted for the finger roll and it rimmed out.
This post was edited on 10/31/24 at 12:05 pm
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