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1
Posted on 2/15/24 at 6:34 am to Raging Tiger
And rest of the world can also get a 70 series.
Posted on 2/15/24 at 6:40 am to Raging Tiger
quote:
Supposedly they wanted to get rid of the sequoia, but Japan only agreed to keep it if they kept the base a tundra
That would explain why it looks like Toyota didn’t really give a shite about the Sequoia. In many ways the new one is a step down from the old one. The design quality is terrible as a whole as it is on the Tundra. It’s a rare miss for Toyota and it needs a refresh to correct some of those issues.
The new GX and LC are so much better. They are both very good designs.
Hopefully the new 4Runner keeps the slide down rear window. That’s an awesome feature that we’ll miss if we don’t have it. They didn’t put it in the Land Cruiser for some reason.
This post was edited on 2/15/24 at 6:47 am
Posted on 2/15/24 at 6:43 am to root
That 70 series
Posted on 2/15/24 at 6:52 am to Drank
quote:
Reminds me of my 2007 FJ that also got called a Mall Crawler back in the day and a soccer mom vehicle as well. That Blue sumbitch got me to places I didn’t know I could climb.
It’s a Toyota tuck thing. We’ve got a 4Runner TRD Off Road. It’s not even the TRD Pro. I’m shocked at how incredible that thing is off pavement.
I’m not going to trade this one. I might buy a new vehicle one day but I’ll be keeping this one around. I do wish it had a v8 and could move the trailer around a little better.
This post was edited on 2/15/24 at 6:53 am
Posted on 2/15/24 at 6:55 am to LegendInMyMind
quote:
No way that 4 Runner is 25 feet long. I'm calling shenanigans
I don’t recall giving out my number
Posted on 2/15/24 at 6:58 am to Raging Tiger
Infuriating that Toyota keeps the actual 300 Series Land Cruiser from the US and sends the Prado version instead (just wish the Prado taken off).
Posted on 2/15/24 at 6:59 am to YOURADHERE
Can confirm here at least in DFW, it’s close to almost a year wait for a GX and the master list is actual real people.
Posted on 2/15/24 at 7:00 am to YOURADHERE
Also on a waitlist for the GX550. It's gonna be a while.
Posted on 2/15/24 at 7:43 am to dewster
That's the spot we're at too, my wife drives the 4Runner(also TRD Off Road) and I currently daily drive a F250. Eventually she wants a van, I'll start driving the 4Runner as a daily, and park the truck for when I need to do truck stuff.
We've done a bit of offroad stuff with it and are trying to put together a trip to Colorado over the summer to do more hopefully.
We've done a bit of offroad stuff with it and are trying to put together a trip to Colorado over the summer to do more hopefully.
Posted on 2/15/24 at 8:23 am to Raging Tiger
The Land Cruiser looks good. Very FJ-like which will excite the Toyota off road truck loyalists. The Lexus version also looks very good. It is just kind of strange how Toyota/Lexus will now have 3 SUVs very close in size and on the same chassis and relatively similar price ($55,000-$70,000 range): 4Runner, Land Cruiser, and GX550. I hope they know what they are doing, because it looks like they can cannibalize each other potentially. Very General Motors-esque with that approach they've taken. It will pay off if they are right that the market is craving vehicles like that in that price range (I think they are right), but I'm not sure how they'll differentiate the 4Runner from the Land Cruiser in particular now.
I hear that the new 4Runner will basically be the SUV version of the new Tacoma TRD which is a good thing. They really did a fantastic job with the new Tacoma. It's a far better effort than the new Tundra, and the Tacoma will easily retain its top sales position although the new Colorado and Canyon are excellent options now too. Those three trucks make the new Nissan Frontier look pretty dated already. But an SUV version of the Tacoma is going to have almost exactly the same length, width, height, and likely weight of the new Land Cruiser. So what's the benefit of stepping up to the Land Cruiser? Or will the 4Runner be dumbed down with a cheaper feel and look?
It's concerning because the existing 4Runner is known for being bulletproof in terms of reliability and off road capability, and it remains wildly popular despite being such an old design. And Toyota has had a few design misses lately which is kind of unusual for them. It's well within their capability of screwing this up.
They made a lot of weird decisions on the design for the latest Tundra, and in many ways it's a step back. Things like the lack of tow hooks, bed steps, a flimsy console, and a lot of strange styling elements just makes the whole thing feel half baked especially relative to the very good recent design efforts from Ford, General Motors, and Stellantis/Ram. There's also been some well documented (and arguably blown out of proportion) reliability issues with the latest twin turbo V6 that serves at the Tundra's powertrain.
Then with the Sequoia we were expecting that they'd be using it to sort of replace the LC 300 series in the lineup in the US after hearing that the interior would be smaller than the second gen and they were returning to a solid rear axle. I thought this would be an understated, off road focused machine with a Lexus-like interior. But by all accounts the newer design is far worse off road, sits lower to the ground, lacks recovery points, has a fairly cheap feeling interior borrowed from the pickup trucks, and features the unnecessarily blocky "bro dozer" styling. The design is kind of a turn off for people that like the less gimmiky look of the Land Cruisers or even the Sequoias of the past. I don't know what they were doing here - but it's a miss if they were trying to replace the full sized Land Cruiser in the US market, and it's an even bigger miss if they were chasing the Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban, and Expedition. A lot of people with second generation Sequoias are not going to step up to the new one. They might have had a similar impact on sales had they just added car play and the new powertrain to the 2021/2022 model year Sequoia.
Had I know Toyota would totally shite the bed on the third generation Sequoia, I'd have bought the last year of the second generation model. But they curbed production during the pandemic to retool for the updated Tundra. The last year of the second generation Sequoia was damn hard to find.
I love Toyota trucks, and I'm exactly their target audience for the Sequoia but I have a Yukon AT4 in the driveway instead for a damn good reason.
I hear that the new 4Runner will basically be the SUV version of the new Tacoma TRD which is a good thing. They really did a fantastic job with the new Tacoma. It's a far better effort than the new Tundra, and the Tacoma will easily retain its top sales position although the new Colorado and Canyon are excellent options now too. Those three trucks make the new Nissan Frontier look pretty dated already. But an SUV version of the Tacoma is going to have almost exactly the same length, width, height, and likely weight of the new Land Cruiser. So what's the benefit of stepping up to the Land Cruiser? Or will the 4Runner be dumbed down with a cheaper feel and look?
It's concerning because the existing 4Runner is known for being bulletproof in terms of reliability and off road capability, and it remains wildly popular despite being such an old design. And Toyota has had a few design misses lately which is kind of unusual for them. It's well within their capability of screwing this up.
They made a lot of weird decisions on the design for the latest Tundra, and in many ways it's a step back. Things like the lack of tow hooks, bed steps, a flimsy console, and a lot of strange styling elements just makes the whole thing feel half baked especially relative to the very good recent design efforts from Ford, General Motors, and Stellantis/Ram. There's also been some well documented (and arguably blown out of proportion) reliability issues with the latest twin turbo V6 that serves at the Tundra's powertrain.
Then with the Sequoia we were expecting that they'd be using it to sort of replace the LC 300 series in the lineup in the US after hearing that the interior would be smaller than the second gen and they were returning to a solid rear axle. I thought this would be an understated, off road focused machine with a Lexus-like interior. But by all accounts the newer design is far worse off road, sits lower to the ground, lacks recovery points, has a fairly cheap feeling interior borrowed from the pickup trucks, and features the unnecessarily blocky "bro dozer" styling. The design is kind of a turn off for people that like the less gimmiky look of the Land Cruisers or even the Sequoias of the past. I don't know what they were doing here - but it's a miss if they were trying to replace the full sized Land Cruiser in the US market, and it's an even bigger miss if they were chasing the Tahoe, Yukon, Suburban, and Expedition. A lot of people with second generation Sequoias are not going to step up to the new one. They might have had a similar impact on sales had they just added car play and the new powertrain to the 2021/2022 model year Sequoia.
Had I know Toyota would totally shite the bed on the third generation Sequoia, I'd have bought the last year of the second generation model. But they curbed production during the pandemic to retool for the updated Tundra. The last year of the second generation Sequoia was damn hard to find.
I love Toyota trucks, and I'm exactly their target audience for the Sequoia but I have a Yukon AT4 in the driveway instead for a damn good reason.
Posted on 2/15/24 at 8:24 am to member12
quote:
The new GX and LC are so much better. They are both very good designs.
Do you have a family? They are tiny, i might as well be in a grand highlander. at least it has room
Posted on 2/15/24 at 8:30 am to Lsuhoohoo
Exactly, they only have spy shots of the new 4Runner out and you cant really see anything.
Posted on 2/15/24 at 8:31 am to YOURADHERE
quote:
That's the spot we're at too, my wife drives the 4Runner(also TRD Off Road) and I currently daily drive a F250. Eventually she wants a van, I'll start driving the 4Runner as a daily, and park the truck for when I need to do truck stuff.
We've done a bit of offroad stuff with it and are trying to put together a trip to Colorado over the summer to do more hopefully.
The existing 4Runner is an excellent product and it's not climbed in price as much as other alternative products like the Wrangler Unlimited. They did a fantastic job when they designed that thing 15 years ago
If they can make it ride better and tow better without making it bigger/heavier or sacrificing its off road capability and "old school" feel, it's going to be a smash hit again. But that's also kind of encroaching on the new Land Cruiser's market. So I don't really know what to expect from the latest 4Runner other than just a Tacoma with an SUV body. Hopefully it has the extremely good reliability of the current 4Runner. That's a big selling point - knowing that the thing will work, you can always depend on it getting you around in even the worst conditions (or neighborhoods), and four wheel drive will engage when you need it without a barrage of electronic error messages like you get in the Bronco sometimes.
I really like the mid sized pickups now, so I'm sure I'll like the next generation 4Runner. I also wouldn't mind a Chevrolet or GMC competitor based off the new Colorado or Canyon - without a removable top though. That's a feature I actually don't care for on the Jeep and Bronco. That's why I like the 4Runner and the new Land Cruiser so much.
Posted on 2/15/24 at 8:34 am to HuskyPanda
quote:
Exactly, they only have spy shots of the new 4Runner out and you cant really see anything.
You are right - you can't really see much other than the fact that the truck exists.
I see what I think is the thicker axle shafts of a solid rear axle, and more traditional side mirrors (but that may not be production). Same wheels as the new Tacoma TRD Off Road, which means same lug pattern.
I can't even tell if it has the roll down rear window, which has become a 4Runner trademark.
It will probably have the turbo 2.4L engine and 8 speed transmission from the Tacoma and the new Land Cruiser. But it would be awesome if they had the new Tundra's powerplant as an option.
Posted on 2/15/24 at 8:39 am to TigerBaitOohHaHa
quote:
Also on a waitlist for the GX550. It's gonna be a while.
The new GX550 looks like a very good vehicle.
Kind of surprised that the new Lexus LX isn't a bigger seller. I've only seen a handful in the wild. It's really not that expensive considering what a loaded Yukon, Sequoia, or Suburban costs these days. It's a little cheaper than a loaded Escalade or Range Rover. Lexus did a good job with their styling on those too.
Posted on 2/15/24 at 8:47 am to dewster
quote:
I’m not going to trade this one. I might buy a new vehicle one day but I’ll be keeping this one around. I do wish it had a v8 and could move the trailer around a little better.
Other than being down about 30 horsepower and mated to a very old 5 speed transmission, the 4.0L V6 is an excellent motor. I think it's a better truck engine than the newer 3.5L V6 they have used in the Tacoma the last 7-8 years.
It probably doesn't meet emissions targets anymore though. So the "low stress" naturally aspirated Toyota V6 will die with the current generation 4Runner. I hope they figure out how to make the turbo 2.4L 4 cylinder every bit as reliable as their old V6s.
Posted on 2/15/24 at 9:05 am to Obtuse1
quote:
Or get yourself a Grenadier
It seems to be a Defender that can actually last a few years without rusting through. I love the Defender, but Land Rover never really had the money or the manufacturing prowess to really do it right.
Ineos at least kept the design mostly simple, and I think it's got a solid ZF transmission. They are clearly setting the truck up to support a lot of quasi-custom accessories that will bring revenue to the company long term, which is what Jeep has done for decades with the Wrangler. Land Rover is trying to do that with the new Defender too (as well as Ford with the new Bronco, GMC with the new Hummer EV, etc.).
There is a big fault with the Ineos though. I don't get the love of the BMW B58 I-6 they are using in the Ineos. I know it's smooth and powerful and has its die hard fans, but I haven't seen a modern BMW powerplant of any kind that can actually take on a lot of miles without very expensive issues on both the top and bottom end of the engine. They are typically not very forgiving when it comes to maintenance or fuel quality. Any BMW powerplant made in the last 20 years is an odd choice in a vehicle that is going to go places where tow trucks and service departments aren't really easy to find. And Ineos doesn't really have a network of service departments anywhere to begin with.
They should have just stuck an LS or LT V8 under the hood as the gas model. Those are very reliable, can run on very crappy quality gasoline, and they very cheap to keep running with widespread availability of parts. It's probably much easier to package under the hood than a DOHC inline 6 too. The European buyers will just stick with the diesel, but in the places where people might actually use these for their intended purpose - an LS or LT V8 is a much better option.
Posted on 2/15/24 at 9:38 am to Raging Tiger
Thinking I'll find my way into that new LC for sure.. Bought my wife a new Sequoia around this time last year and have loved it.. I want something a bit bigger than my RDX and think the LC would fit the bill perfectly
Posted on 2/15/24 at 10:03 am to frequent flyer
A few things. I was listening to an industry podcast, I can't remember which one, but here are some nuggets I picked up on.
1. The GX/Land Cruiser/4Runner are basically the same vehicle. They are differentiated by price and components. Just a progression.
2. The 300 Land Cruiser has a 4.5 year backorder in Japan. That's crazy.
3. Toyota thinks that Lithium based battery power is a dead end. Their electrification will be hybrids with the much more reliable Nickel Hydride until solid state becomes reality.
1. The GX/Land Cruiser/4Runner are basically the same vehicle. They are differentiated by price and components. Just a progression.
2. The 300 Land Cruiser has a 4.5 year backorder in Japan. That's crazy.
3. Toyota thinks that Lithium based battery power is a dead end. Their electrification will be hybrids with the much more reliable Nickel Hydride until solid state becomes reality.
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