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re: Father and son arrested after killing catalytic converter thief
Posted on 6/1/22 at 7:51 am to KnB Purple
Posted on 6/1/22 at 7:51 am to KnB Purple
quote:
Except you can't take someone's life defending your personal property.
You obviously don't live in Texas. Not a lawyer here, but Texas PC Sec. 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41; and
(2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
(B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property; and
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.
If you shoot the kid stealing the bike from your front porch at 10 pm, and there have been 2 robbery/murders in your neighborhood in the last year, it may be a reasonable assumption that your life may be in danger for trying to stop the thief.
I personally would hope that people would not consider ANY property to be worth more than ANY human life, thief or not. But then again, thieves don't value their own lives, nor robbers do not value the lives of others, so why should anyone place any value on the lives of thrives and robbers?
This post was edited on 6/1/22 at 8:10 am
1
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:27 am to yaboidarrell
Yep.
Catalytic Converters are worth more than some lives.
Catalytic Converters are worth more than some lives.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:30 am to KnB Purple
quote:
Except you can't take someone's life defending your personal property.
Then we need to change that.
"Stuff" is acquired over time spent thru labor.
When you steal my stuff, you are stealing part of my life.
Even if it's only a lawnmower, I want you shot dead for stealing part of my life.
Sound fair?
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:31 am to KnB Purple
quote:
What you're describing makes you a decent, contributing member of society, yes. But the law says otherwise. Things are replaceable, lives are not.
Tell me you live in a lily white suburb behind gates and with security without telling me.
You sound privileged as frick and do not seem to grasp how wretched and sub human thieves are.
But continue feeling good on your high horse.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:31 am to KnB Purple
Please shut the Hell up.
You are what's wrong with the world.
You are what's wrong with the world.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:34 am to yaboidarrell
What if the owners of the Prius beat the thief to death with said catalytic converter? Bueller? Bueller?
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:34 am to Gravitiger
Sorry one of your people got smoked?
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:47 am to sugarbuzz
From the link. How was this missed?
BUCKEYE, Ariz. - A Buckeye man is under arrest and accused of hitting and killing a bicyclist and then leaving the scene on May 21.
Police say Fernando Ramos was driving a pickup truck when he collided with 60-year-old George Cooper, who was riding a bike. The wreck happened near Jackrabbit Trail and Beloat Road.
Deputies pulled over Ramos about nine miles away and took him into custody.
Link to same fox affiliate from OP
BUCKEYE, Ariz. - A Buckeye man is under arrest and accused of hitting and killing a bicyclist and then leaving the scene on May 21.
Police say Fernando Ramos was driving a pickup truck when he collided with 60-year-old George Cooper, who was riding a bike. The wreck happened near Jackrabbit Trail and Beloat Road.
Deputies pulled over Ramos about nine miles away and took him into custody.
Link to same fox affiliate from OP
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:49 am to EF Hutton
I am aware, and I am reading the law correctly. Those bunch of Latin words have nothing to do with what I was responding to, which was the supposition that you have no basis in law to justifiably kill somebody in defense of property.
Outright and alone, no, i.e. going outside and shooting someone as they drive away on your four wheeler. In conjunction with being lawfully within a place as someone attempts to come in or is already in and committing crimes in re property, yes. That is, breaking into your shop to steal the four wheeler as you are already into the shop, and they for example have weapons and/or otherwise evidence a reasonable likelihood of committing murder or great bodily harm to you.
Oh, and then incidentally, as you say, you must be reasonably in fear of that death or great bodily harm, which will be judged by the reasonable man test, not a subjective individual person standard. That's a question of an element, not whether a person has the right to do what they did IF it were reasonable. That issue is irrelevant to what that poster and I were talking about.
Outright and alone, no, i.e. going outside and shooting someone as they drive away on your four wheeler. In conjunction with being lawfully within a place as someone attempts to come in or is already in and committing crimes in re property, yes. That is, breaking into your shop to steal the four wheeler as you are already into the shop, and they for example have weapons and/or otherwise evidence a reasonable likelihood of committing murder or great bodily harm to you.
Oh, and then incidentally, as you say, you must be reasonably in fear of that death or great bodily harm, which will be judged by the reasonable man test, not a subjective individual person standard. That's a question of an element, not whether a person has the right to do what they did IF it were reasonable. That issue is irrelevant to what that poster and I were talking about.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:49 am to salty1
It wasn’t
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:49 am to KnB Purple
quote:If you weren't already aware, you are precisely what is wrong with this country.
Except you can't take someone's life defending your personal property.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:54 am to Aubie Spr96
quote:
We all know that these frickers aren’t going to jail for it which is why they continue to do it.
What is all this talk about not going to jail on this board. shite I never get any breaks and don’t see anyone else getting them. Maybe it’s where I live
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:56 am to LRB1967
quote:
They were defending their property. Second degree murder is an overcharge. This is manslaughter at best.
The way the law should work in a case where someone's actions caused the killing is the thief should be the one charged with second degree murder of himself (since you know his being there to steal caused them to shoot him) and then the guys who killed him would get some lesser charge or nothing. That's how it works when you are involved in a normal murder why not here? Had he not been trying to steal he would not be dead. His actions clearly caused his own death. (You know, if we wanted to actually stop these pieces of shite from doing what they do)
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:58 am to yaboidarrell
You can't just go around gunning people down. Call the police and report the theft, that's their job.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 8:58 am to Gravitiger
quote:
By law, you typically don't have that right with respect to personal property. You can argue that you should, but that is a different question.
As a rule, that's correct.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:01 am to Bonkers119
quote:
Call the police and report the theft, that's their job.
To document crimes? Yes. We know that's what they do.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:06 am to KnB Purple
quote:This.
Except you can't take someone's life defending your personal property.
Life > Property
People who disagree are subhuman savages.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:12 am to KnB Purple
quote:
Except you can't take someone's life defending your personal property.
You sure can in Texas.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:31 am to EF Hutton
quote:
If many of the opinions and red down arrow checking people i see here are serious, you guys are going to wind up convicted.
Most of them are keyboard kommandos. The rest simply prove that the United States doesn't have a gun problem, it has a mental health problem.
Posted on 6/1/22 at 9:33 am to KnB Purple
quote:
If you think material possessions are more important than a human life I don't know what to tell you.
Here in BR the paper did a story about a woman who's cat converter was stolen.
The part was going to take 6 months, and be thousands of dollars. The lady couldn't afford it. She used her vehicle for door dash, etc. It was her livelihood. She was basically fricked and couldn't work. Her life was ruined.
It was depressing as hell. So yes, you're damn right that lady's possessions, and by extension her own life, are worth more than that pos.
Not every life is worth the same. Sorry, not sorry. Is the crackhead that kills a man, worth as much if that man is a doctor. Absolutely not. What if that guy is on verge of some major breakthrough in cancer treatment? That crackhead is basically worthless.
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