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1
Posted on 11/17/23 at 8:58 am to redstick13
That guy was a jackass regardless of his chosen profession.
I flew with a 22 year old a few months back, and he was sharp as hell.
The youngest US ace was 19.
I flew with a 22 year old a few months back, and he was sharp as hell.
The youngest US ace was 19.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 9:02 am to NATidefan
quote:
Mine was 21 when I was 19. He had been flying since 16 and was building hours to get his commercial license at a flight school.
That's one of and probably the best ways for them to earn hours free and gain more quality experience.
No skin in the game here, but this just seems illogical to me.
"You're not experienced enough, so to gain more experience, you're going to do it by teaching others how to do what you don't have enough experience doing."
Posted on 11/17/23 at 9:09 am to redstick13
Watched some. Will watch later.
One point, is there a single more anointing set of commercials than the Hertz ones with Tom Brady. God I hate those.
One point, is there a single more anointing set of commercials than the Hertz ones with Tom Brady. God I hate those.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 9:13 am to Burt Orangello
quote:
"You're not experienced enough, so to gain more experience, you're going to do it by teaching others how to do what you don't have enough experience doing."
Experience flying comes from being exposed to more and more situations that only occur over time. Think weather and mechanical issues, etc.
Flying isn't cheap, so most people that want to become commercial pilots have to gain that experience from someone that will pay them to do it. Military, being instructor, etc.
Flying and landing a Cessna 152 isn't that hard, it just takes practice. It's all that experience with other factors like emergencies and weather especially that you need to become a good pilot.
Lots of people could just learn to fly different aircraft and pass flight tests, but then you would have 21 year olds flying commercial flights with 30 people on board and no real long term experience.
It's tragic this happened, but 2 life's lost is way better than 30+.
This post was edited on 11/17/23 at 9:47 am
Posted on 11/17/23 at 9:21 am to redstick13
quote:
“headed are [sic] way like a group of pissed off hornets.”
The way I was taught, he should have been running the other way like a scared little girl.
My instructors made it absolutely clear you don’t eff around with thunderbumpers in small planes. And he was doing it at night.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 9:26 am to redstick13
There is no way in hell I would step on a plane with a 22 year old pilot unless I had a death wish.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 9:33 am to Merlin1200
quote:
After looking at his Instagram, I wouldn’t even trust him to be my Uber driver
Initially I thought he may be another entitled Paul Murdaugh but after looking at his Insta and pulling up the location for the kid instructor’s “Big Rubber Ranch” I realized they are just your average Kentucky redneck family who blew money on useless crap.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 9:33 am to redstick13
It would suck to die at 18.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 9:47 am to NATidefan
I understand the system and like I said, I don't have any strong opinion either way.
It just sounds/seems weird to me to have people teaching others as a means to gain experience themselves.
In my line of work, only experts (knowledge/skill AND experience) have any business teaching anyone anything, so it's obviously a different approach.
I have a couple of commercial pilots in the family and have been taking the controls of their personal single engine piston planes since I was a little kid. The flying of the plane isn't hard at all, but that's just a small part of aviating. I could see a young, inexperienced FI teaching the flying part, but there's a big hole there when it comes to all the stuff that requires judgment/intuition (handling weather, traffic, etc.)...you know, the things that come with experience.
It just sounds/seems weird to me to have people teaching others as a means to gain experience themselves.
In my line of work, only experts (knowledge/skill AND experience) have any business teaching anyone anything, so it's obviously a different approach.
I have a couple of commercial pilots in the family and have been taking the controls of their personal single engine piston planes since I was a little kid. The flying of the plane isn't hard at all, but that's just a small part of aviating. I could see a young, inexperienced FI teaching the flying part, but there's a big hole there when it comes to all the stuff that requires judgment/intuition (handling weather, traffic, etc.)...you know, the things that come with experience.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 9:51 am to GEAUXT
quote:
Not uncommon at all. He could have 6 years of flight experience by that time
My cousin just turned 18 and flies those exact type of planes by himself. He’s been flying for as long as I can remember.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 9:55 am to Burt Orangello
quote:
I could see a young, inexperienced FI teaching the flying part
That's mostly what they are teaching.
Most people solo around 20-30 hours. After that you are flying by yourself mostly doing cross country flights with some other mixed in stuff until you get your private license.
You don't have to be a Nascar driver to teach your kid to drive a car right?
The problem here wasn't his ability to teach the guy to fly, it was his attitude and inexperience with weather.
You really need a good understanding of weather to be a good pilot. No way I would be making/continuing that flight with those storms crossing my path. And in this day and age with radar in the plane, GPS, etc. (Something I didn't have) there is no real excuse for him to have made that mistake.
This post was edited on 11/17/23 at 9:56 am
Posted on 11/17/23 at 10:07 am to redstick13
Maybe they wouldn’t have crashed had the idiot instructor gotten off Snapchat and actually helped the kid fly the plane through conditions they shouldn’t have flown in anyways
Posted on 11/17/23 at 10:12 am to NATidefan
quote:
You don't have to be a Nascar driver to teach your kid to drive a car right?
A 17-18 year old could teach a 15-16 year old how to "drive a car" - throttle, brakes, steering. But they don't have any business teaching the 15-16 year old how to navigate 6 lanes of 75mph traffic in a major metropolitan area.
A 17-18 year old shouldn't be a Driver's Ed. instructor.
quote:
The problem here wasn't his ability to teach the guy to fly, it was his attitude and inexperience with weather.
You really need a good understanding of weather to be a good pilot. No way I would be making/continuing that flight with those storms crossing my path. And in this day and age with radar in the plane, GPS, etc. (Something I didn't have) there is no real excuse for him to have made that mistake.
I think you're proving my point here. "Flying" vs. "Being a good pilot" ...
Yeah, he's probably fine teaching him stick/rudder. Hell, I could teach someone that based on my hours on the controls of family members' planes. But there's more to "piloting" than simply "flying" - the things you just mentioned above. I'd get everyone killed if I was responsible for that stuff.
quote:
it was his attitude and inexperience with weather
Exactly...and yet, he was teaching someone else?
quote:
there is no real excuse for him to have made that mistake.
You just gave the reason - "his (attitude) and inexperience with the weather."
So again, not experienced enough to be telling/teaching anyone else what to do/not do. He didn't know himself...because he lacks experience.
For clarification - not arguing with you. I'm not a "pilot" and likely never will be. I'm just talking about the logic of it.
I know it's expensive to fly and building hours takes awhile - so being a CFI to cover both is the way to go. I just don't think it passes logical muster. That said, it will likely never affect me, so my opinion really isn't all that strong.
This post was edited on 11/17/23 at 10:15 am
Posted on 11/17/23 at 10:25 am to deltaland
quote:
Maybe they wouldn’t have crashed had the idiot instructor gotten off Snapchat and actually helped the kid fly the plane through conditions they shouldn’t have flown in anyways
I doubt this CFI would have changed any of his decisions. His father’s comments after the crash give a window into how the men in that family think. There should probably be a screening method to prevent people like this from becoming a CFI.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 10:39 am to GEAUXT
quote:But what about maturity? Knowing how to act and live as a socially acceptable human being and how to conduct oneself in a position of authority.
Not uncommon at all. He could have 6 years of flight experience by that time
I can tell you one thing. Someone like that should never be in a position of authority.
This post was edited on 11/17/23 at 10:41 am
Posted on 11/17/23 at 11:47 am to Burt Orangello
quote:
there's more to "piloting" than simply "flying" - the things you just mentioned above. I'd get everyone killed if I was responsible for that stuff.
Taking off and flying is easy. It’s the whole landing part that gets you
Posted on 11/17/23 at 11:56 am to Burt Orangello
I think your viewing this the wrong way really.
We let kids get drivers license and they don't have to be taught by anyone with any real certified experience at all. Yes they have to pass a written and driven(which can even be skipped with drivers Ed these days) test. But then they are allowed to drive and put passengers and other drivers at risk. Way more people at risk than this instructor was with limited experience.
No one is going to become a safe experienced pilot without lots of experience. I only flew a few years, but my dad had his private license for over 20 years and I promise he was always learning and getting safer.
At some point you draw the line and say they have enough experience to do _______. As someone else said you aren't gonna have many 30 year olds signing up to be instructors for 30 an hour when they have a family and career as a commercial pilot.
Was he young, cocky, immature, and inexperienced in some ways? Yes, but how many lives was he putting at risk from it? And was he gaining experience to put less lives at risk later in his career?
How many lives do 16-20 year old drivers put at risk daily?
Pilot error and poor judgement happens at all ages and experience levels. Same with drivers. But you aren't going to get more experience by any other way than doing it more.
Eta: I will say that weather should be a stronger emphasis in pilot training, tests, etc. As it is mildly touched on from my experience.
We let kids get drivers license and they don't have to be taught by anyone with any real certified experience at all. Yes they have to pass a written and driven(which can even be skipped with drivers Ed these days) test. But then they are allowed to drive and put passengers and other drivers at risk. Way more people at risk than this instructor was with limited experience.
No one is going to become a safe experienced pilot without lots of experience. I only flew a few years, but my dad had his private license for over 20 years and I promise he was always learning and getting safer.
At some point you draw the line and say they have enough experience to do _______. As someone else said you aren't gonna have many 30 year olds signing up to be instructors for 30 an hour when they have a family and career as a commercial pilot.
Was he young, cocky, immature, and inexperienced in some ways? Yes, but how many lives was he putting at risk from it? And was he gaining experience to put less lives at risk later in his career?
How many lives do 16-20 year old drivers put at risk daily?
Pilot error and poor judgement happens at all ages and experience levels. Same with drivers. But you aren't going to get more experience by any other way than doing it more.
Eta: I will say that weather should be a stronger emphasis in pilot training, tests, etc. As it is mildly touched on from my experience.
This post was edited on 11/17/23 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 11/17/23 at 11:57 am to Burt Orangello
quote:
it will likely never affect me,
Or maybe it will, when these guys have enough hours to get hired by the airlines. I'd be more comfortable being piloted by AI than by Douchey McDickbag.
Posted on 11/17/23 at 12:53 pm to Ag Zwin
FAFO
Fly Angrily, Find Out
Fly Angrily, Find Out
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