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re: What are people living on?
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:26 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:26 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Is it your claim that capitalism cannot meet the needs of all participants, and that government must intervene in order for everyone to survive in this system?
It's not designed to meet the needs of all participants just like school isn't designed for everyone to make passing grades. Some people aren't particularly smart or good at making money. The question is what do we do with them?
2
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:27 pm to Korkstand
quote:
capitalism cannot meet the needs of all participants
Correct. The system requires effort to meet your needs in capitalism. Some people don’t want to put forth the effort. Lucky for them in capitalism someone often puts forth the effort for them and finds a way to make a profit by feeding and clothing and caring for them
quote:
that government must intervene in order for everyone to survive in this system?
The “right” and necessity protected by government for universal survival of every person absolutely and without consideration of their own responsibility for that survival is not only a dangerous and easily perverted and deceptive concept to take hold as the main political backdrop in human history but it also seems to be counter-intuitive to the laws of nature themselves
This post was edited on 4/3/22 at 8:35 pm
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:28 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Is it your claim that capitalism cannot meet the needs of all participants,
Only if you create a warped definition of "meet the needs" that suits your argument.
Also, "capitalism" doesn't do anything. Only authoritarians think "capitalism" does something. It's a state of being, not an active participant. Authoritarians requires everything to be some sort of active institution b/c that's their mindset (applying force).
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:29 pm to fallguy_1978
quote:
It's not designed to meet the needs of all participants just like school isn't designed for everyone to make passing grades. Some people aren't particularly smart or good at making money.
"Freedom breeds inequality" (should be inequity)
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:30 pm to doya2
I don’t know what they’re doing to live but there is a significant percentage of the country that is completely unhireable whether due to criminal history, drug addiction, attitude, intelligence, or just not even having the ability to show up on time.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:32 pm to NOLAVOL16
quote:
but there is a significant percentage of the country that is completely unhireable whether due to criminal history, drug addiction, attitude, intelligence, or just not even having the ability to show up on time.
As stated earlier, the problem is what we do with these people.
It's only going to get worse as our economy requires intelligence/skills to be at the most basic level.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:C'mon what? Do you disagree that it is a subsidy?
You mean via government programs?
C'mon.
quote:Are you saying that wages should remain stagnant? Does not the rising tide lift all boats?
bullshite. This is a circular argument with no end, b/c higher wages will cause inflation in other wages which will cause inflation....and will require...higher wages.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:33 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Does not the rising tide lift all boats?
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:34 pm to doya2
One Giant Welfare State.
This sucka (USofA) is going over the cliff, and it won't be pretty.
This sucka (USofA) is going over the cliff, and it won't be pretty.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:35 pm to Breauxsif
quote:
Early Curly, who believes economics is not a science must still be banned
Yah, he doesn't even think it qualifies as a pseudoscience.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:35 pm to Korkstand
quote:
C'mon what? Do you disagree that it is a subsidy?
It's not a subsidy for the business.
It's a program that manipulates the system. If you want the program, then you have to live with other parties living within the manipulated system.
If you want to bring up government redistribution as a problem, then you should address the government redistribution itself.
quote:
Are you saying that wages should remain stagnant?
No. Wages will rise and fall with the market.
The market does not require "a living wage" for all market participants, so arguing it's some requirement is not rational.
You're making a sociological argument in a discussion about economics.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:37 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Does not the rising tide lift all boats?
No it doesn’t.
Boats with bad Maitenence, little upkeep, or those tied and secured incorrectly will often sink in a sudden high tide scenario.
This post was edited on 4/3/22 at 8:38 pm
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:39 pm to meansonny
quote:
The workforce has turned into mercenaries
Agreed. And companies caused this by showing zero loyalty and zero concern for employees for the last 30 years or so. Want an actual raise? You have to leave. You’re expected to be available 24/7 and train your replacement but they’ll walk you out the door at 5pm on a Friday with no notice. Turnabout is fair play. We were trained to be mercenaries. Now the mercenaries are reaping the benefits.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:40 pm to fallguy_1978
quote:
It's not designed to meet the needs of all participants just like school isn't designed for everyone to make passing grades. Some people aren't particularly smart or good at making money.
quote:That probably depends on how many of them there are and will be. How many will be left behind being unable to earn enough to live while the cost of living continues to increase as it has forever?
The question is what do we do with them?
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:42 pm to doya2
Entry level jobs are definitely having staffing issues.
My high schooler go their fist job with no experience making $12/hr at Starbucks. Gets a free sandwich while working and gets a free drink each day working or not. Gets another dollar an hour in tips, and get a raise to $15/hr in June.
This has to have a ripple effect through our entry level positions which has to effect top level blue collar and wire collar positions.
Entry level plumber apprentice starts at around $15/hr. No way someone wants that in the heat doing physical labor when they can make the same in an A/C environment.
Now u need to increase the labor for entry plumber so now you have to pay a licensed plumber more. Now you need to compensate his project manager more……..
……ripple effect. Now the cost of construction skyrockets.
My high schooler go their fist job with no experience making $12/hr at Starbucks. Gets a free sandwich while working and gets a free drink each day working or not. Gets another dollar an hour in tips, and get a raise to $15/hr in June.
This has to have a ripple effect through our entry level positions which has to effect top level blue collar and wire collar positions.
Entry level plumber apprentice starts at around $15/hr. No way someone wants that in the heat doing physical labor when they can make the same in an A/C environment.
Now u need to increase the labor for entry plumber so now you have to pay a licensed plumber more. Now you need to compensate his project manager more……..
……ripple effect. Now the cost of construction skyrockets.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:44 pm to doya2
Most businesses can find employees, just not for the same one-sided deals they got pre-pandemic. Very few people are genuinely sitting on their asses anymore.
Not casting any stones at any individual business owners who might be reading this while struggling to find workers—but I have noticed that the places that struggle to fill jobs overwhelmingly are places that were shitty to work at pre-pandemic for various reasons (wages too low, shitty management).
Not casting any stones at any individual business owners who might be reading this while struggling to find workers—but I have noticed that the places that struggle to fill jobs overwhelmingly are places that were shitty to work at pre-pandemic for various reasons (wages too low, shitty management).
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:46 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Should a BK employee not earn a living wage? Why should the rest of us have to subsidize Burger King by paying the rest of their employees' wages? If they can't make money paying living wages, then it's a failed business model.
And don't say those are jobs for high school kids, fast food operates during school hours.
I thought your profound ignorance was mainly confined to COVID analysis. I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong.
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:50 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:You say that as if they are independent things. What is the point of an economy if not to support a society? What is a society without an economy? We can't talk about people surviving (or not) without it being a socioeconomic discussion.
No. Wages will rise and fall with the market.
The market does not require "a living wage" for all market participants, so arguing it's some requirement is not rational.
You're making a sociological argument in a discussion about economics.
So when the economy fails the society, is it rational to just let it all burn?
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:50 pm to Korkstand
quote:
That probably depends on how many of them there are and will be. How many will be left behind being unable to earn enough to live while the cost of living continues to increase as it has forever?
The real question is how do we reduce the costs of emigration?
The problem with that, is that we have massive illegal immigration, so the question raised is: why do our LCMs feel above those opportunities?
Posted on 4/3/22 at 8:51 pm to fallguy_1978
quote:
What is a living wage in most of the country - 40-50k? What about the people who work a much more difficult job than the fry station making 55k? Do they need 75 now?
More difficult jobs don't always pay well. There are plenty of people that are making $55/hr working no harder than someone right next to them making $18/hr. Hell, there are folks doing identical work making $10-20/hr less than someone simply because they were poor at negotiation or joined the workforce at a different time.
What I'm saying is the market doesn't always reflect a person's worth.
People saying shite like, "I'll just quit my accounting job and work at McD's" are full of it. They won't. Working at McD's sucks arse. It's a horrible work culture. If people legitimately think someone making a living wage at a fast food joint is bad for the economy then we shouldn't have fast food joints.
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