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Started By
Message
re: Justice for Ashli Babbitt, Should Trump go for it?
Posted on 10/22/24 at 6:50 pm to Mickey Goldmill
Posted on 10/22/24 at 6:50 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
They don’t know she isn’t armed
Is that the legal requirement…not knowing whether someone is armed?
quote:
breaking through a barrier/door/window isn’t threatening?
Are you saying that breaking through a barrier is sufficient to shoot to kill?
quote:
So if someone did that to your house, you wouldn’t feel threatened?
We aren’t discussing feelings. The discussion is whether the person who shot Babbitt should face criminal charges.
2
Posted on 10/22/24 at 6:56 pm to moneyg
quote:Just imagine this. Get 80 of your buddies. Go to your nearest federal courthouse. You and 80 of your buddies run past the metal detectors and security line. Storm up to the courtroom and start trying to break into the judge’s chambers. See if you get shot.
Is that the legal requirement…not knowing whether someone is armed?
Posted on 10/22/24 at 6:59 pm to moneyg
You brought up threatening. Not me. What she did, especially given the circumstances, was no doubt threatening. She was literally part of a mob who broke in and was trying to get to the people these officers were trying to protect.
Sadly, she allowed certain people to warp her mind and radicalize her to the point that she acted so insanely as to try that.
Sadly, she allowed certain people to warp her mind and radicalize her to the point that she acted so insanely as to try that.
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:10 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
You brought up threatening. Not me
I was referencing the original post in this thread which stated Babbitt “was not iminent threat to him or anyone else”.
You replied directly to that comment.
quote:
She was literally part of a mob who broke in and was trying to get to the people these officers were trying to protect.
You keep avoiding the question. Did the person who shot her for breaking through the barrier follow the law? Can LEO just shoot people breaking down barriers? Can they shoot through an opening and kill someone trying to climb through?
Try to give a “straight” answer.
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:27 pm to moneyg
How many times/ways do I have to explain it? Yes, the officer was justified. Here is the official DOJ policy of lethal force:
It would be hard to argue that there was imminent danger while behind that barrier. Once crossed, that’s a different story.
quote:
Law enforcement officers and correctional officers of the Department of Justice may use deadly force only when necessary, that is, when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person.
It would be hard to argue that there was imminent danger while behind that barrier. Once crossed, that’s a different story.
This post was edited on 10/22/24 at 7:32 pm
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:32 pm to Mickey Goldmill
would have been ruled a bad shoot anywhere else in America
Babbitt no weapon
she was not menacing the officer
she was not advancing toward the officer, he stepped towards her to shoot her
when he shot her, she fell backwards through the door, not towards him
her hands were occupied by steadying herself in the window when he shot her
how was he afraid for his life?
bad shoot
Babbitt no weapon
she was not menacing the officer
she was not advancing toward the officer, he stepped towards her to shoot her
when he shot her, she fell backwards through the door, not towards him
her hands were occupied by steadying herself in the window when he shot her
how was he afraid for his life?
bad shoot
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:33 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
when the officer has a reasonable belief that the subject of such force poses an imminent danger of death or serious physical injury to the officer or to another person.
So you are pointing to a subjective, broad policy?
Nobody else was shot.
Officers on the other side where Babbitt was didn’t shoot. Did those officers even draw their guns?
Lots of questions. I’ve seen officers prosecuted for less.
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:34 pm to moneyg
quote:
Nobody else was shot.
Nobody else broke through the door.
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:35 pm to Lutcher Lad
Bitch got watch she had coming. If you don’t want to get shot, don’t break into federal buildings. You’d think we would have figured this out in 1861. C’mon, man!
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:38 pm to moneyg
quote:
Lots of questions. I’ve seen officers prosecuted for less.
I have watched a lot of body cam videos on youtube since george floyd
one thing I can tell you is if there is an officer involved shooting, there had better be a weapon involved
a gun, pipe, knife, tire iron, car
something
the first thing they do on body cam is find, then point out, then secure the weapon on camera to cover their arse
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:39 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
Nobody else broke through the door
Deciding to murder someone will accomplish that.
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:42 pm to moneyg
Yeah..he did what he had to do to stop the mob. It’s sad that it ever got to that point.
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:44 pm to supatigah
quote:
I have watched a lot of body cam videos on youtube since george floyd one thing I can tell you is if there is an officer involved shooting, there had better be a weapon involved a gun, pipe, knife, tire iron, car something the first thing they do on body cam is find, then point out, then secure the weapon on camera to cover their arse
Excessive use of force is a huge issue in Law enforcement.
A weapon…the appearance of a weapon. These are reasonable arguments.
Mickey tried to say that not knowing if she had a weapon is the standard.
Then he said because it was the last barrier, that’s the standard.
Now he’s saying that the officer just needs to feel threatened.
He’s all over the place.
There’s a scenario where the officer is going to have to justify his actions.
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:45 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
It would be hard to argue that there was imminent danger while behind that barrier. Once crossed, that’s a different story
It would be even harder to argue a person crossing a barrier was a threat when they were allowed to cross by other uniformed, armed officers. Especially when said officers immediately moved in post execution.
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:47 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
It would be hard to argue that there was imminent danger while behind that barrier. Once crossed, that’s a different story.
officers facing a hallway full of people
officers calmly exiting the door with no one stopping them or threatening them
officer steps towards babbitt to shoot her in the door, while protecting an empty hallway
bad shoot
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:50 pm to moneyg
quote:
There’s a scenario where the officer is going to have to justify his actions.
exactly
his story and their cover up will not stand up
the members of Congress were down the evacuation tunnels and gone by the time this happened
IIRC there was one congressman near there and he was secure in a room with other armed security
Posted on 10/22/24 at 7:56 pm to supatigah
Where are her “friends”? If she were my companion I’d try to help her with basic first aid?
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:00 pm to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
quote: knowing she was not iminent threat to him or anyone else.
link?
Any of the many vids showing the 2 LEO's step away/aside from the very spot she was shot while they then watched it happen from 6' away.
Now, tell us why they stepped aside & then tell us why they didn't pull her back/down knowing the threat posed.
Tell us, Mickey. C'mon Mickey, tell us.
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:13 pm to Lutcher Lad
Odds are that not a day goes by that the cop doesn`t regret shooting that unarmed little woman.
He will live with the day he panicked and made a poor decision to shoot instead of arresting and deescalating the rest of his life whether he is eventually brought to justice or not.
Meanwhile Ms. Babbitts` grieving family has been hung out to dry with no justice served.
He will live with the day he panicked and made a poor decision to shoot instead of arresting and deescalating the rest of his life whether he is eventually brought to justice or not.
Meanwhile Ms. Babbitts` grieving family has been hung out to dry with no justice served.
This post was edited on 10/22/24 at 8:16 pm
Posted on 10/22/24 at 8:36 pm to moneyg
quote:
Excessive use of force is a huge issue in Law enforcement. A weapon…the appearance of a weapon. These are reasonable arguments. Mickey tried to say that not knowing if she had a weapon is the standard. Then he said because it was the last barrier, that’s the standard. Now he’s saying that the officer just needs to feel threatened. He’s all over the place. There’s a scenario where the officer is going to have to justify his actions.
No, you don’t understand what you’re talking about. It’s a totality of the circumstances and it is a subjective standard, to a point.
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