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re: The Decline of Coal
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:22 pm to SmileyVamp
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:22 pm to SmileyVamp
quote:nice link..... because you know that isnt true.. is NG competitive. absolutely. but just being competitive wouldn't decimate the coal industry. Environmentally restricting the mining and burning of said material is what decimates an industry.
It has been noted that the regulations former President Obama established during his administration barely did much to the coal industry compared to natural gas beating it in the energy competition
1
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:22 pm to lsu777
quote:
it was a dishonest campaign to keep using solar, made possible by industry pressure, lobbying, subsidies...
Same can be said for the above...
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:26 pm to BiteMe2020
Pretty sure China also leads the world in both wind and solar too. Putting all those child miners out of work.
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:26 pm to Lee B
quote:
joe is not going to ban fracking... he is going to limit "new" additional fracking... the fracking in place will continue.
But fracking sucks. Ask people that live around where it happens. Nothing like having flammable water come out of your taps.
"Joe Biden supports a ban on new fracking permits for federal land and waters, not a total ban."
The problem is that not only does a ton of drilling and oil production occur on federal land, a major advantage of drilling in federal land is the lack of other people living there.
Most of those incidents of flammable water were naturally occurring and happening well before drilling or documentaries began. I've been on locations where we hit gas pockets drilling at depths as low as 700'.
I'd tell you to go read something that isn't propaganda, but your low post count suggests that you're just a jimmies rustling bot.
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:27 pm to Lee B
quote:
independence...
if there is a future for this stuff there will not be a giant power plant powering an entire city. Every house and building will power itself.
As it is places like college campuses have their own power plants, like the are tiny cities.
It makes more sense to have traffic lights that collect and store their own energy as they work all day than having them be tied into a grid and inoperable some of the time (they are out all the time in my city).
People used to build houses before the advent of electricity that made use of natural light and passive heat and cooling. Even bothering with thinking about any of that went out the window with the advent of electricity and air conditioning and heat... except it's becoming fashionable with wealthy people now who have custom houses built... the very people who don't need to bother are cutting the money they spend on utilities, the poor will pay more and more to live inefficiently.
If you are interested, the YouTube channel Venture City has posted a video on the growing usage and development of solar energy and the concept of a solar city may become a reality. New technologies like solar roofs, solar windows, etc. are making their way to the market.
Source:LINK
Venture City takes a look at topics that combine entrepreneurship and technological development.
This post was edited on 1/12/21 at 1:29 pm
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:27 pm to southern686
quote:
They could. You still need the material though.
Most all your common plastics, PVC, rubber, etc. that nearly everything is built from contains fossil fuel.
My point being even the very items you people push like windmills and solar panels contain what you are trying to get away from.
I have a Prius and a SUV. I'm not so vegan greenie...
I drive the Prius around town (when i have to drive, anymore... my office is .8 miles from my house, but I'm mostly working from home and the kid is doing remote schooling) because I have to put gas in the tank once a month, maybe once every 5 weeks in normal times... I can't remember the last time I even had to do it with things as they are now. It's been paid off for years... oil cahnges once every 8,000 miles because the gasoline angine doesn't work that much in city driving. Cost effective for me. Cool.
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:28 pm to philter
quote:
Solar produces billions of tons of carcinogenic sludge and other by products. Also, it takes so many more solar panels to equal the output of a nuclear power plant that it's astonishing. Not to mention the materials you need to BUILD the solar panels are polluting the environment.
This is what they do not get or understand. The left has fed and pushed "green" and "solar" so hard as clean energy they believe it. After all, I can't blame them; they are getting rich off idiots believing them, voting for them, and ignorantly pushing that narrative further.
Sure, the time and technology may come one day. I do not see it coming in my life time though. Currently, we just are not ready. It is too hard to beat a nuclear or hell, even NG power plant.
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:31 pm to SmileyVamp
quote:
In the end, the free market has no interest in coal.
You mean they've been regulated out of business, you aren't very bright
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:31 pm to philter
quote:
Same can be said for the above
no doubt. same with ethanol.
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:35 pm to SmileyVamp
More news on the deline of coal.
Source: LINK
Oregon’s last coal power plant shuts down for good
The last coal plant in the State of Oregon has closed in October 2020.
Source: LINK
Oregon’s last coal power plant shuts down for good
quote:
PORTLAND, Ore. — The super hot furnace that burned many tons of coal over 40 years near Boardman, Oregon, is now dark. It was the only place in the state where coal was burned to make electricity.
The owner, Portland General Electric (PGE), shut it down for good Oct. 15.
I visited the plant in October 2019 to talk about the closing, which was on the horizon. One of the workers sorry to see it all come to an end was there at the beginning 42 years ago. Dave Bolz is proud of the work he did and the energy the plant provided.
The last coal plant in the State of Oregon has closed in October 2020.
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:41 pm to SmileyVamp
quote:
Alternatives like natural gas and solar have become quite competitive
That’s fine. I have a problem with Govt regulation shutting it down. I don’t have a problem with the most efficient model winning the battle
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:46 pm to Lee B
quote:
We have a lot of natural gas. It doesn't need to come from fracking..
Yhe abundance of natural gas we have, and the associated low price is entirely due to fracking. It is "shale gas" that is in abundance, gas trapped in the pores of rock, and fracturig the rock (frackin) is the only way to extract it. Also, the output of gas wells decline in at a expotentail rate, once the output of a gas well declines to the point of not being viable, it must be fracked again to restore. Ban fracking and our supply will dwindle, causing price to skyrocket along with your utility bill.
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:49 pm to Lee B
If you have a modern coal fired plant coal it is still quite competitive. Building new coal fired is capital intensive so when plants were nearing the end of their life cycle due to current regs and projected regs, utilities went to Combustion Turbine/ steam turbine combined cycle system.
There are lots of costs to consider besides fuel price in making a decision. Demolition of an old plant, landfilling, building pipeline, anticipated regulations, public pressure, available property. It is literally a plant by plant decision on the economics. Some coal fired will be around for awhile.
I forgot coal combustion byproducts like synthetic gypsum, cenospheres, bottom ash and flyash have commercial value for wallboard, makeup, cement, and as an abrasive. Lots of wallboard is made from coal fired generation synthetic gypsum. Class F flyash is used in concrete and Class C has cementitious properties and cna be used in addition to Portland Cement.
There are lots of costs to consider besides fuel price in making a decision. Demolition of an old plant, landfilling, building pipeline, anticipated regulations, public pressure, available property. It is literally a plant by plant decision on the economics. Some coal fired will be around for awhile.
I forgot coal combustion byproducts like synthetic gypsum, cenospheres, bottom ash and flyash have commercial value for wallboard, makeup, cement, and as an abrasive. Lots of wallboard is made from coal fired generation synthetic gypsum. Class F flyash is used in concrete and Class C has cementitious properties and cna be used in addition to Portland Cement.
This post was edited on 1/12/21 at 1:57 pm
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:52 pm to doubleb
quote:
Where does solar power rank? More or less expensive than coal?
What is the actual cost of coal? When consumers come to their senses and force utilities to pay market rates for solar production solar will drive the final nail in the coffin of coal in the United States. The actual costs of coal are devastating....
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:52 pm to GeorgeWest
quote:your iphone is built by coal. sorry you are too ignorant to realize this
GeorgeWest
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:53 pm to Lee B
quote:
And Tesla;s solar tiles are roofing tiles
I love the Tesla roofs. Not necessarily for the environmental reasons but for being off the grid most of the time. They are however expensive. 4-5 time the costs of a traditional roof.
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:53 pm to BiteMe2020
quote:
Meanwhile, Chinese coal plants increased output.
They also dig ditches in China with a pick and shovel. They are at least 50 years behind the US in terms of technology. Is it a race to keep up with China or a race to outpace China?
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:56 pm to Lee B
The same are also working to ensure natural gas is no longer economical as we speak. Watch the drilling and pipelines shut down in mass. (Unless it's on China-bought land)
Posted on 1/12/21 at 1:59 pm to Gtmodawg
Do you have wallboard in your house? If it is less than 10 years old it is likely made of synthetic gypsum from a coal fired plant.
Posted on 1/12/21 at 2:08 pm to CarRamrod
The CCR Rule along with ELGs on coal fired generation and new air quality rules all hit about the same time. It was meant to cripple. Some of these were co-dependent. Clean up the air means more coal desulfurization, increasing waste generation but ash ponds are being squeezed so that affects a pool of water used to treat effluent. So you go to dry stacking which costs more, try to sell that gypsum if you can and build water treatment plants. Had these rules been staggered it could have been dealt with more efficiently.
Then of course there is the threat of more draconian measures against coal. Meanwhile China is building coal fired and even buying some of our coal to run them. Germany is buying our coal to blend.
Then of course there is the threat of more draconian measures against coal. Meanwhile China is building coal fired and even buying some of our coal to run them. Germany is buying our coal to blend.
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