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re: Why is abortion so important to the Left?
Posted on 10/4/22 at 5:41 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Posted on 10/4/22 at 5:41 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Natural law and religion are separate ideas. Religion tends to borrow some ideas from natural law, but that's where it ends.
True religion and natural law are one in the same.
1
Posted on 10/4/22 at 5:42 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
Christianity is an impediment to discovery? Freedom? Give me an example of discovery that Christianity would infringe or impede an individual’s efforts to seek? Some of the greatest scientists and mathematicians have been Believers.
Freedom? The most liberating life is a life that is not shackled to the trappings and lust of the world. Nearly every person I know who is seeking or consumed with the material things of the world remind me of a angry hamster running wild in their hamster wheel. It’s crazy because I’ve known some rather wealthy people In my 63 years, some family, some are friends and acquaintances and many are surrounded by some of the finest trappings of this world and they’re frequently unhappy looking for the next material conquest to feel the void in their life they’ve yet to fill.
I’m not poor, I’m not wealthy but I’m without question blessed, blessed because the Lord allowed me enough time to fill that void in my life that I spent a large portion of my young adult life trying to fill with drugs, alcohol, uncommitted sex, greed ….you know or have heard the story.
I still have my moments where I occasionally lack self control and have one too many beers, or look too long at an attractive woman, or out of anger or frustration say something I regret….but I have a Lord and Savior and if I come with contrition and humble myself before Him and ask forgiveness for my trespasses He forgives and encourages me to not give up and continue with my sanctification until my time comes.
Freedom? The most liberating life is a life that is not shackled to the trappings and lust of the world. Nearly every person I know who is seeking or consumed with the material things of the world remind me of a angry hamster running wild in their hamster wheel. It’s crazy because I’ve known some rather wealthy people In my 63 years, some family, some are friends and acquaintances and many are surrounded by some of the finest trappings of this world and they’re frequently unhappy looking for the next material conquest to feel the void in their life they’ve yet to fill.
I’m not poor, I’m not wealthy but I’m without question blessed, blessed because the Lord allowed me enough time to fill that void in my life that I spent a large portion of my young adult life trying to fill with drugs, alcohol, uncommitted sex, greed ….you know or have heard the story.
I still have my moments where I occasionally lack self control and have one too many beers, or look too long at an attractive woman, or out of anger or frustration say something I regret….but I have a Lord and Savior and if I come with contrition and humble myself before Him and ask forgiveness for my trespasses He forgives and encourages me to not give up and continue with my sanctification until my time comes.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 5:53 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:You seem to be confused. You said that my belief in something makes me arrogant even though I said that I don't have a high opinion of myself (which is the essentially definition of arrogance).
Incorrect. It isn't merely the belief that makes you arrogant.
quote:The Bible teaches such a principle and it corresponds with reality. Everyone has their idols and areas of worship. It just isn't always so formal as with a nominal religion.
Oh bull shite. This is something religious people say to rationalize why others don't believe as they believe.
quote:It's not irrational at all. There isn't anything irrational about the belief in God, of sin, or the punishment of sin in hell. If you believe it's irrational, you are equivocating on the word "irrational". Just because you don't believe something doesn't mean it's irrational.
Sure, but not in the bogeyman who will send me to hell if I don't adhere to your man-made moraility. That's decidedly irrational.
quote:OK? I never said otherwise. In fact, what the Bible teaches says as much. Those who hear the shepherd's voice will follow him because they are his sheep. Those who do not follow him will not because they do not belong to him.
Sure, but not to "anyone who isn't buying what you're selling."
There's an entire doctrine of election borne out in the scriptures, and that doctrine explains that only those who have been elected/chosen by God will believe the truth and be saved, while those who were not chosen will reject it. The message of the gospel is also called "foolishness" in the eyes of the world (non-believers) precisely because it takes a "heart of flesh" and not a "heart of stone" to receive it as truth.
It's a spiritual and moral issue, not an intellectual one.
quote:Not at all. The point of differentiating between objective and subjective in this case is to call attention to dependency and truth as it pertains to the human experience. We, as individuals, are the subjects of our interpretation of reality, and each person can interpret reality differently. What is objective is that which is independent of our individual perceptions, or what is true regardless of our individual perspectives.
No, there isn't. What you're trying to uphold as objective morality is nothing but subjective morality from a different source.
Morality is not subjective to God because God is not a human that "experiences" morality but is the very standard of morality by His very character. Morality is intrinsic to His being, not merely something He perceives.
But even if morality were "subjective" to God, that would be irrelevant to the point of saying that morality is objective because of God, because the entire purpose of calling morality "objective" is to describe humanity's relationship to it. Such a morality exists outside of the human experience and what is morally "true" is not determined by ourselves.
But back to my point: humans do experience guilt. Humans have a natural inclination for moral reasoning and even alter their behaviors (and even their thinking) to align with their belief in a moral reality, yet such experience only makes sense within the paradigm of Christian theism. Atheism, on the other hand, says that there is no objective moral reasoning, and that morality, itself, is nothing but a human construct evolved over time to further propagate the species. This view turns morality into nothing but an arbitrary preference that is entirely subjective to each person, and this flies in the face of how humans actually act. We "know" that something is wrong even if we don't have a rational reason for saying so.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:11 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Could you be more specific? Can you quote a particular passage for example?
Sure.
I meant could you quote a particular passage about abotion.
I'm pro life as well. I understand the argument you're making.
But you said earlier that my friend is rejecting God's Word. That's a harsh statement to make about a fellow Christian. So which passage about abortion would you share with my friend?
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:14 pm to L.A.
They like killing little innocent babies…end of story!
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:18 pm to L.A.
It’s a polarizing issue that they use to get votes….just like climate change and racism.
That’s all they have now so they can’t afford to lose these issues.
That’s all they have now so they can’t afford to lose these issues.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:18 pm to L.A.
quote:
So why is abortion so important to the Left?
They want true equality.
Since men don't have to worry about being a parent, they don't want women to either. In their minds, a woman's ability to give birth is actually a hindrance to her - both sexually and career-wise. Allowing women to kill their babies lets them behave more like men.
They don't understand that for the most part, women living life like men, makes them miserable. But screw that, it's all about equity.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:19 pm to L.A.
quote:
Why is abortion so important to the Left?
Because the Dems think they can win an elections with it.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:20 pm to L.A.
quote:The word "abortion" is not used in the Bible. The concept is only talked about in terms of terms of judgement on tribes and nations who reject God (ripping out children from their mothers for the purpose of killing them is only mentioned in a negative sense). 2 Kings 8:12 and Hosea 13:16 are examples of this.
I meant could you quote a particular passage about abotion.
I'm pro life as well. I understand the argument you're making.
But you said earlier that my friend is rejecting God's Word. That's a harsh statement to make about a fellow Christian. So which passage about abortion would you share with my friend?
The case against abortion from the Bible is cumulative, which is what I tried to provide you. It's a teaching that is based on the nature and character of God, the definition of sin, the view of children, and the application of these things towards unborn children.
Specifically, Jeremiah 1:5 is a reference to the prophet Jeremiah who was consecrated to his office as prophet from before his birth (while he was still in the womb). The judge Samson, likewise, was consecrated as a Nazarite from the womb, and his mother was not allowed to drink wine (just like Jeremiah's mother) because of this consecration of the pre-born person, and this was referenced by Judges 13.
Lastly, Luke 1:39-45 shows that the womb of Mary was blessed to have the living savior inside it. John the Baptist was Jesus' biological cousin and "leaped" in his mother's womb when he was in close proximity to Jesus in His mother's womb. However you want to interpret that, the passage is showing some sort of life or movement within the womb, and certainly the womb of Mary was called "blessed" by having the presence of Jesus in it. Jesus had value before His birth. We, likewise, who are made in God's image, have value even in the womb. To kill a child in the womb is to violate the 6th commandment.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:23 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
It's one of the primary issues in facilitating potential economic equality in the workforce.
There are very, very few things I would use the word absolute with. That said, your position is an absolute fallacy.
It is poor women who have the vast majority of abortions, primarily poor black women. Look where most of the planned parenthood “clinics” are.
More affluent and upward mobile women are much, much less likely to pursue abortions.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:46 pm to FooManChoo
quote:The text in Jeremiah actually says BEFORE he was in the womb, not WHILE he was in it
Jeremiah 1:5 is a reference to the prophet Jeremiah who was consecrated to his office as prophet from before his birth (while he was still in the womb)
Everything else you said is subjective. Again, I happen to agree with you, but nothing you offered constitutes Biblical proof
Are you familiar with Numbers 5 and the teaching there that encourages abortion if it is suspected that the woman has been unfaithful?
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:47 pm to L.A.
WEF goals of less than 1 billion people.
Abortion and transgenderism are big tools to get there.
Abortion and transgenderism are big tools to get there.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:52 pm to L.A.
quote:
Why is abortion so important to the Left?
No idea why.
I'm pretty conservative but there are a few things i have no problem with. Weed legalization is one and the other is letting these maggots terminate their offspring. All they do is bring these heathens into this world and create more chaos. Let them have at it in my opinion. They're useless to themselves much less being a parent. We end up with more of them.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:54 pm to pochejp
quote:
I'm pretty conservative
Doubt it.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:55 pm to L.A.
quote:
Are you familiar with Numbers 5 and the teaching there that encourages abortion if it is suspected that the woman has been unfaithful?
Posted on 10/4/22 at 6:58 pm to L.A.
quote:
Are you familiar with Numbers 5 and the teaching there that encourages abortion if it is suspected that the woman has been unfaithful?
In no sane reading of Numbers 5 can it be said to encourage abortion.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 7:02 pm to Azkiger
Here it is. Numbers 5:11-31 (NIV)
quote:
11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her, and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure—or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure— 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[c] of barley flour on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy, a reminder-offering to draw attention to wrongdoing.
16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy, while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse. 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[d] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” “‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.”
23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[e] offering and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse. 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.
29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences of her sin.’”
Posted on 10/4/22 at 7:03 pm to the808bass
quote:
In no sane reading of Numbers 5 can it be said to encourage abortion.
You don't think abdomen swelling and thighs rotting away from consuming dust from a temple floor would harm a fetus inside a pregnant woman?
Posted on 10/4/22 at 7:05 pm to the808bass
quote:It absolutely does IF the woman has been unfaithful. Read the text for yourself. I just posted it
In no sane reading of Numbers 5 can it be said to encourage abortion.
Posted on 10/4/22 at 7:06 pm to the808bass
quote:
27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.
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