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re: Why isn't US men's soccer better than it is?
Posted on 7/8/18 at 4:34 pm to Broski
Posted on 7/8/18 at 4:34 pm to Broski
Like I said, I’m no expert, so I’ll ask: do the big European youth academies make students pay for their soccer education, or do they instead compete financially to bring in the best young prospects in the hopes that they will eventually pan out and provide a massive return on investment as a world-class player? And, by way of comparison, how do the US academies handle things?
1
Posted on 7/8/18 at 5:30 pm to TheTideMustRoll
quote:
do the big European youth academies make students pay for their soccer education
No. Like you say, the money comes from sales and / or from the national association.
quote:
compete financially to bring in the best young prospects
Yes for the club run academies . . . even to the point of trying to "lure" young players from other academies (especially where different countries have differing age limits concerning "minors" signing contracts.)
quote:
world-class player
Some may disagree with me here but I've always thought that most truly world class players are already pretty well formed before 14-15 years old.
However, this is speaking of the club academies that mainly have 14-20 year olds.
Eventual world class talents have already developed the technique on the ball before arriving at these, before their teen years.
I think tennis, that was mentioned above, is probably the best example in that most top players already have the skill set as pre-teens and the teen years are more about learning how to apply those skills.
This post was edited on 7/8/18 at 5:36 pm
Posted on 7/8/18 at 7:23 pm to wm72
not a huge soccer fan, but do enjoy the sport and the passion, and appreciate the rivalries/league competitions ... have a very close friend from houston (pawn played for him) who was a hs coach ... i distinctly remember an article john lopez wrote for the houston chronicle when the cup was in the US, outlining his thinking on why the US will probably never be a serious contender for the cup ... essentially, soccer is too manicured in this country ... that stems from the lack of participation/etc, but also from the lack of attachment to the sport ... there are very talented players, but they play and practice at the facility, which is typically immaculate and well organized/run/maintained ... these are his thoughts as i remember them ...
i used to teach at essentially a refugee school in houston ... had kids from all over the world as the school was located at a geographical crossroads in sw houston ... one of the best memories of teaching there, aside from the incredible stories of the perseverance of the kids in getting to the US, was the fact that every single day during lunch, unless it was pouring rain, there'd be 30-40 kids on the old tennis court (concrete surface) playing soccer ... not real soccer - no hard tackles/pushes/etc, but kicking, dribbling, etc .. was literally never, ever too hot nor too cold ... it started snowing one day out there in january and they were already out there doing their thing ... it was every single day ... that type of environment teaches some skills that possibly our players don't get by practicing in their very controlled environment all the time ...
i used to teach at essentially a refugee school in houston ... had kids from all over the world as the school was located at a geographical crossroads in sw houston ... one of the best memories of teaching there, aside from the incredible stories of the perseverance of the kids in getting to the US, was the fact that every single day during lunch, unless it was pouring rain, there'd be 30-40 kids on the old tennis court (concrete surface) playing soccer ... not real soccer - no hard tackles/pushes/etc, but kicking, dribbling, etc .. was literally never, ever too hot nor too cold ... it started snowing one day out there in january and they were already out there doing their thing ... it was every single day ... that type of environment teaches some skills that possibly our players don't get by practicing in their very controlled environment all the time ...
Posted on 7/8/18 at 10:24 pm to tiderider
Tiderider that is my point. I was watching river monsters one day with my son. He was deep in South America days away from civilization, in a village with no power or running water in search of some monster fish. He had to wait a day to continue in his journey as the village had a big soccer match against a rival village. No running water, power, basically living just like they have for hundreds of years but they had a soccer field and a team.
I looked at my son and said “That’s why we will never be great at soccer”
Screw IMG, send your kid to play the Mexicans in the park 8 hours a day all Summer and see how much better he will be.
I looked at my son and said “That’s why we will never be great at soccer”
Screw IMG, send your kid to play the Mexicans in the park 8 hours a day all Summer and see how much better he will be.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 3:17 pm to sgallo3
quote:Yep. It is the same reason we are struggling now as a nation in top tennis players. In tennis and soccer, pure athleticism only take you so far. You need to dedicate almost everything to the game from about 8 years old in order to make the top of the mountain
the US soccer system was set up so you practice 2 hours a day then go home and play a couple games.
to truly be great you have to live with a ball at your feet from the time you stand up until you are a professional. you wont get that kind of dedication from kids whose home life is so comfortable that their parents can afford to pay thousands a year to put them on a travel team
Americans want their kids to play all sports
Posted on 7/9/18 at 3:24 pm to lsupride87
quote:
Americans want their kids to play all sports
I feel like America is moving away from that and has been for a long time. Now, parents are pushing their kids to focus on one sport earlier and earlier in life. Parents think little Johnny needs to spend 100% of his free time playing baseball so that he can get that scholarship. I'd love for the US to be better in soccer, but I still think we'd have a better society if kids played more sports because they enjoyed them. That's why we have recreation. I still don't really enjoy playing or watching baseball 13 years after I finished playing it at the end of high school. I was just burnt out on it after so many years of it after dropping basketball and soccer in middle school.
This post was edited on 7/9/18 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 7/9/18 at 3:25 pm to sgallo3
quote:I would say if soccer was the #1 sport in america you would see this
it has to start with kids in the streets playing for 8+ hours every day
It isnt an athletic thing, its a care/passion thing. If soccer was the #1 sport in america, we would be better. I dont know why that isnt being accepted as fact in this thread
This post was edited on 7/9/18 at 3:26 pm
Posted on 7/9/18 at 3:26 pm to DestrehanTiger
quote:Oh I am not saying you are wrong
I feel like America is moving away from that and has been for a long time. Now, parents are pushing their kids to focus on one sport earlier and earlier in life. Parents think little Johnny needs to spend 100% of his free time playing baseball so that he can get that scholarship. I'd love for the US to be better in soccer, but I still think we'd have a better society if kids played more sports because they enjoyed them. That's why we have recreation. I still don't really enjoy playing or watching baseball 13 years after I finished playing it at the end of high school. I was just burnt out on it after so many years of it after dropping basketball and soccer in middle school.
But the truth is, if you want your kid to be a top pro in soccer or tennis, he needs to be eating that shite for breakfast, lunch, and dinner from the time he is a young kid
It is what it is
Posted on 7/9/18 at 3:33 pm to lsupride87
quote:
But the truth is, if you want your kid to be a top pro in soccer or tennis, he needs to be eating that shite for breakfast, lunch, and dinner from the time he is a young kid
I know this is anecdotal, but Pulisic was not "eating that shite for breakfast, lunch, and dinner from the time he is a young kid." He played multiple sports.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 3:35 pm to SUB
quote:There are outliers for every rule
I know this is anecdotal, but Pulisic was not "eating that shite for breakfast, lunch, and dinner from the time he is a young kid."
ETA: Also everything I have read about Pulisic had him focused on soccer very early on
ETA 2: He stopped playing all other sports at 9... Also, one can "play" other sports. But tennis/soccer practice should never stop even when these other sports are in season.
This post was edited on 7/9/18 at 3:45 pm
Posted on 7/9/18 at 4:01 pm to lsupride87
I’m not sure if this has been mentioned or if they are even implementing this now, but the first few years kids are playing soccer they should have smaller teams on a smaller field. Like 5 v 5. That way they will get more on-ball experience in game and force them to adapt to a faster pace. Brazil does this and other countries have picked up on it too.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 4:05 pm to GeauxLSUGeaux
Klinsmann’s reforms placed a huge emphasis on small-sided games for younger players. I can’t remember the exact specifications off the top of my head, but it’s definitely being implemented now. And that’s a good step in the right direction. Maximize those touches on the ball. Kids learn by playing.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 4:24 pm to GeauxLSUGeaux
quote:
I’m not sure if this has been mentioned or if they are even implementing this now, but the first few years kids are playing soccer they should have smaller teams on a smaller field. Like 5 v 5. That way they will get more on-ball experience in game and force them to adapt to a faster pace. Brazil does this and other countries have picked up on it too.
I don't know about you guys, but that's how it was when I grew up playing 25 years ago. Every year or so, the field got bigger and the number of players increased. In fact, I remember my youngest sister playing 3v3 games. Of course, this was with 5 year olds. So, there was very little soccer involved. Maybe you're saying they should remain on smaller fields with less players for longer.
Posted on 7/9/18 at 9:11 pm to DestrehanTiger
I hate to call bullshite to all this but I have too. You have to be an incredible athlete, have incredible skills and a incredible love of the game that makes you want to play 8 hours a day. 90% of kids can play 8 hours a day and great vastly better but never be great. Baseball is the same exact way. 90% of crazy baseball parents are wasting their money and time.
If you are not throwing in the 80s and have a good curve or slider by 16 you are never going to be a great pitcher, you can be a great high school pitcher and all you can be but you aren’t playing for the Yankees.
If your son can’t play up at least 2 or 3 age groups and still look good, or better yet go to the park and have all the Mexican kids sing his praises then save your IMG money. If he isn’t starting for his high school team in 8th grade....
If you are not throwing in the 80s and have a good curve or slider by 16 you are never going to be a great pitcher, you can be a great high school pitcher and all you can be but you aren’t playing for the Yankees.
If your son can’t play up at least 2 or 3 age groups and still look good, or better yet go to the park and have all the Mexican kids sing his praises then save your IMG money. If he isn’t starting for his high school team in 8th grade....
Posted on 7/9/18 at 9:29 pm to DestrehanTiger
I didn’t have small sided games in the 90s. It was probably 8v8 from the start which didn’t help too much. It seems like we were 11v11 by 10 years old.
Posted on 7/10/18 at 2:24 pm to SUB
No worries. we're stacked, the worlds fricked
Posted on 7/10/18 at 2:27 pm to mizslu314
Look up Konrad De La Fuente highlights.
Posted on 7/10/18 at 3:41 pm to Broski
I think my son was in a camp with Chris Richards years ago, if it is the same kid, he was real deal
Posted on 7/10/18 at 3:52 pm to High C
We don't have the infrastructure. Leagues, dedicated playing fields.
We don't have coaches.
20 years ago USA top college basketball coaches would go to Europe and teach clinics.
Do you see top French. English and German coaches giving free clinics in the USA?
No one brings up world cup when I am out and about.
Topics du jour
Fires.
Whether to trade Baumgartner for some prospects.
Price of housing.
We don't have coaches.
20 years ago USA top college basketball coaches would go to Europe and teach clinics.
Do you see top French. English and German coaches giving free clinics in the USA?
No one brings up world cup when I am out and about.
Topics du jour
Fires.
Whether to trade Baumgartner for some prospects.
Price of housing.
Posted on 7/10/18 at 9:02 pm to High C
I have a theory that one way to increase soccer development would be to pass legislation allowing an exception to Title IX such that men's soccer teams could have scholarships equal to those afforded women's teams. There are some great posts on this board about pay to play and other issues, but if freed from Title IX constraints, college soccer explodes. This puts soccer more in the mainstream of major American sports in that the scholarship becomes a goal of the better athletes. This would keep more good players in the game longer, keeping the pool larger, and would provide a counterbalance to pay to play as college coaches seek the best prospects rather than just the most polished travel players (you see this in baseball now). This may not be the best way to develop players but it would suit our unusual college-based sports culture. It's doable and would be a game-changer. Write your Congressman!
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