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re: Will the US change its youth system?
Posted on 12/12/22 at 11:35 am to StraightCashHomey21
Posted on 12/12/22 at 11:35 am to StraightCashHomey21
Can someone put that article and the pyramid into context for me using TDP Elite? I know they compete in MLS Next, it still costs $$, and they have some kind of affiliation with Houston. Are they basically one of several programs at the base of the Dynamo pyramid, with the goal being to ID players and bring them to the top level, with the top level being their true academy in Houston?
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Posted on 12/12/22 at 12:13 pm to michael corleone
quote:
It incorporates lateral movement, strength and size.
None of which Lio Messi relies on. None of which Luka Modric relies on. None of which Bernardo Silva, Iniesta, de Bruyne, Cruyff, Pirlo, Suarez, Neymar, Foden, Mahrez, Thiago, etc. rely or relied on.
quote:
If you think that our best athletes actually play this sport then you are all truly stupid.
Again, our best athletes do not exhibit qualities that translate to soccer. At least not at the very top level. Sure, lower half table teams in the Prem can flat track bully their way to safety from relegation, but that isn't the benchmark in this sport.
quote:
You need people who recognize and understand natural athleticism at the youth level , with soccer people only coaching them from a skill and strategic standpoint. There is a reason why certain kids excel at football, baseball, and basketball. They are the BEST athletes for their respective sports. The US doesn’t put those same kids in a position to be the best in soccer. It’s a fact.
You are objectively wrong here. Natural athleticism in any other American sport does not translate the to touch, technique, and passing range that makes great soccer players.
Every WC you all come out of the woodwork and discuss how the game should evolve in America, then spent the next 3.5 years not watching a single minute of high-level soccer. You don't understand the sport. And that's perfectly ok, but don't roll up in here lecturing everyone like you're Bob Paisley or Rinus Michels.
Posted on 12/14/22 at 8:35 pm to michael corleone
quote:
If you think that our best athletes actually play this sport then you are all truly stupid.
You truly are a Moron. Half of the NFL doesn’t have the brain power to play professional soccer. Lebron wouldn’t last 30 minutes of an EPL match. Those fat baseball players, well they’re fat.
Posted on 12/16/22 at 1:20 pm to TCO
We need mini pitches in the most densely populated areas with immigrants. Be like Japan and bring in the public schools into the set up.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 2:56 pm to BaddestAndvari
quote:
a large part of the rest of the world plays "pickup futball" while here in the US we do much more Basketball and American Football pickup games with friends.
I agree with this 100%. My personal experience growing up abroad and in the US is this - boys abroad get together and play soccer for fun and with whomever will play. They want to be ronaldinho and Messi. Boys in the US get together and, for the most part, spontaneously play some form of 7 on 7 football and emulate Odell beckham’s catch and the griddy.
To me football/baseball/basketball don’t stand in the way of soccer in America because they suck up the best athletes, they stand in the way because they dominate our sports culture and passions.
Organized sports and clinics are great for producing very good players. But I truly believe the transcendent players in any sport learn their innate creativity and problem solving ability in the disorganized games played in odd conditions and against peer and non-peer participants.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 3:12 pm to ned nederlander
quote:
But I truly believe the transcendent players in any sport learn their innate creativity and problem solving ability in the disorganized games played in odd conditions and against peer and non-peer participants.
I think this is true across a lot of sports, which makes the commoditization of youth sports a little more depressing than it already was.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 3:38 pm to ProjectP2294
quote:
I think this is true across a lot of sports, which makes the commoditization of youth sports a little more depressing than it already was.
It’s hard to imagine anything could be in a more sorry, depressing state.
And then I started looking around for a dance class for my 4 year old girl. Gracious.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 8:15 pm to ned nederlander
We have a huge population so we can afford to lose kids to other sports. It's easier to start with soccer and transition to other sports later than the other way around.
Posted on 12/17/22 at 10:44 pm to TCO
quote:
Half of the NFL doesn’t have the brain power to play professional soccer.
The half that can burn anyone at the World Cup?
Posted on 12/18/22 at 12:46 pm to WicKed WayZ
My theory is that if Title IX were amended to allow for men’s college soccer with full scholarships, more high end athletes would stay in the game. Soccer keeps trying to buck the America model with academies and so forth, but we need to supplement with high end intercollegiate access.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:02 pm to N.O. via West-Cal
quote:None of our young nucleus played college ball with the exception of Turner because he didn't start playing until he was 14
Soccer keeps trying to buck the America model with academies and so forth, but we need to supplement with high end intercollegiate access.
Universities will not be contributing to our pool going forward
This post was edited on 12/18/22 at 1:05 pm
Posted on 12/18/22 at 1:07 pm to WicKed WayZ
No we are more interested in making money in kids soccer than in winning world cups
Posted on 12/19/22 at 2:49 pm to RemouladeSawce
"None of our young nucleus played college ball with the exception of Turner because he didn't start playing until he was 14
Universities will not be contributing to our pool going forward"
This is the standard response I get from "soccer people" but you're missing the point of the proposal. I would not expect many college players to end up on the national team, just as you don't expect many top American tennis pros to have attended much, if any college (yes, there are exceptions like John Isner, and there could be exceptions on the USMNT one day, as well). The reason for allowing college scholarships for men's soccer would be to have the potential for a scholarship to be "on the menu" for young, talented American athletes when they are hitting the ages of about 13-15 when it's become clear they are plus athletes and are making decisions about which sport(s) to focus on going forward. For baseball, football, basketball, track & field, tennis, and more, earning a scholarship is one of the primary goals elite young teen athletes have. So, making men's soccer scholarships as commonplace as those offered to women would serve the function of maintaining a "wide net" for the best prospects by keeping them in the game longer. I would still expect most truly elite prospects to be identified before college or, at the latest in the first year or so of college.
Universities will not be contributing to our pool going forward"
This is the standard response I get from "soccer people" but you're missing the point of the proposal. I would not expect many college players to end up on the national team, just as you don't expect many top American tennis pros to have attended much, if any college (yes, there are exceptions like John Isner, and there could be exceptions on the USMNT one day, as well). The reason for allowing college scholarships for men's soccer would be to have the potential for a scholarship to be "on the menu" for young, talented American athletes when they are hitting the ages of about 13-15 when it's become clear they are plus athletes and are making decisions about which sport(s) to focus on going forward. For baseball, football, basketball, track & field, tennis, and more, earning a scholarship is one of the primary goals elite young teen athletes have. So, making men's soccer scholarships as commonplace as those offered to women would serve the function of maintaining a "wide net" for the best prospects by keeping them in the game longer. I would still expect most truly elite prospects to be identified before college or, at the latest in the first year or so of college.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 3:46 pm to N.O. via West-Cal
quote:
The reason for allowing college scholarships for men's soccer would be to have the potential for a scholarship to be "on the menu" for young, talented American athletes when they are hitting the ages of about 13-15
quote:Problem with this logic is that it disregards what’s required to be a 13-15 year old with university ball potentially on the table in the first place: a household with the expendable $$$ required for a decade of club ball
For baseball, football, basketball, track & field, tennis, and more, earning a scholarship is one of the primary goals elite young teen athletes have
Those same households are also the ones that disproportionately either pay university tuition, or pay private high school tuition so their kids have academic scholarships. Either way, their kids are already going to college and playing ball there
Being real, the Venn diagram of the university-caliber pool at 13-15 and athletes whose future would be genuinely impacted by athletic scholarships doesn’t really overlap
There are other levers to pull that actually move the needle, touching college ball simply doesn’t
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 4:29 pm
Posted on 12/19/22 at 4:52 pm to RemouladeSawce
I understand your point and further understand that your view is conventional wisdom. I just suspect the conventional wisdom is at least partially incorrect. Here are some reasons:
1. I am familiar enough with club soccer and travel ball teams in other sports to know that many such teams have a "scholarship" player or two whose fees are in essence paid by the other kids'parents. You see this with tuition at private schools, too. Not surprisingly, these tend to be some of the best athletes. these kids are likely to be disproportionately represented in the group who are good enough to play in college or at a higher level. In other words, the Venn diagram would show an overlap and because those kids tend to be some of the best athletes, it would be meaningful.
2. An anecdote: Odell Beckham Jr. was said to be an excellent soccer player who might have stuck with it, but he focused on football in part because he could get a scholarship down the line. This is the kind of kid I am talking about, and just a handful of these staying with soccer could make a difference.
3. Finally, I have little doubt that there are "other levers" to pull, but would any of the other approaches you might recommend be adversely impacted by a robust men's collegiate system that kept more quality athletes playing the game of soccer into their teens? At worst, college soccer would be a non-factor in terms of national team success, right?
1. I am familiar enough with club soccer and travel ball teams in other sports to know that many such teams have a "scholarship" player or two whose fees are in essence paid by the other kids'parents. You see this with tuition at private schools, too. Not surprisingly, these tend to be some of the best athletes. these kids are likely to be disproportionately represented in the group who are good enough to play in college or at a higher level. In other words, the Venn diagram would show an overlap and because those kids tend to be some of the best athletes, it would be meaningful.
2. An anecdote: Odell Beckham Jr. was said to be an excellent soccer player who might have stuck with it, but he focused on football in part because he could get a scholarship down the line. This is the kind of kid I am talking about, and just a handful of these staying with soccer could make a difference.
3. Finally, I have little doubt that there are "other levers" to pull, but would any of the other approaches you might recommend be adversely impacted by a robust men's collegiate system that kept more quality athletes playing the game of soccer into their teens? At worst, college soccer would be a non-factor in terms of national team success, right?
Posted on 12/19/22 at 6:15 pm to N.O. via West-Cal
We had two scholarship kids and they were okay but they aren’t on the team anymore. They were serviceable but they couldn’t afford the travel so it was pointless having them
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