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Posted on 6/3/21 at 3:04 pm to ccard257
quote:Of course its allowed. Its open to the public. Its a church service. The whole ward (congregation) will likely welcome you in some way.
Serious question - is this even allowed? I ask because I asked to attend with some LDS friends when I was in highschool and was told I was not allowed to attend.
What you're referring to is the Temple Ceremony in your wedding example. Even many Mormons can't attend a Temple Ceremony if they aren't in "good standing". A Catholic analogy would be someone that violates Canon Law by touting and believing in abortion and not being allowed to take Communion or being excommunicated. So if you're not even informed on the basics, I'll ignore your comments on exclusivity and rely on my over 20 years of personal experience. But by all means please continue to spread your opinion far and wide.
(edit) I've worked in tech out of SLC all but two years of my professional career. I've worked with and managed LDS bishops, I've been invited and attended ward parties and events, sacrament meetings and even a few baptisms. Its church. I've also ascended from individual contributor to the C-level of two different tech companies. In SLC. Your opinions remind me of the Eddie Murphy SNL skit where he lives as a white guy. Absurd.
White Like Me
This post was edited on 6/3/21 at 5:23 pm
Posted on 6/3/21 at 3:46 pm to alpinetiger
quote:
Also have you ever attended an LDS Sacrament Meeting? Its church, lady. They're not castrating goats and drinking blood. But by all means, please continue to share your opinion with anyone that will listen. I certainly do appreciate it.
No, but I live in Houston and have known many LDS folks. Very friendly, fabulous neighbors and friends. I was shocked when I heard this. This is actually the very first time I've ever shared this with anyone.
My guess is that it might be different when you live in a suburb with tons of LDS folks, where many of the kids social activities revolve around the church. I didn't say they were mean. Maybe not kindly was going too far. I'll give you that. But because so much was church related, they were excluded. I doubt many Southern Baptists or Catholics are going to be sending their kids to LDS stuff.
Posted on 6/3/21 at 3:58 pm to LaLadyinTx
I've found Midwest people to be friendly, but not Southern friendly.
alpine,
I was hoping to spend a lot more time out there as my company had a development office there. COVID shut that office down and now everyone is working remote. Love to get a condo or something there and rent it during the school year and use it myself during the summer. Still might do it.
alpine,
I was hoping to spend a lot more time out there as my company had a development office there. COVID shut that office down and now everyone is working remote. Love to get a condo or something there and rent it during the school year and use it myself during the summer. Still might do it.
Posted on 6/3/21 at 4:08 pm to alpinetiger
I don't have a lot of experience with LDS and I agree they are mostly a friendly group. But acting like you won't at times be an outsider and they do some rather unique things, would be completely ignorant. I don't think its a great reason to not move to Utah, but depending on your personality and expectation it certainly seems like something that should be experienced and considered if its for a more permanent move. If this was a 1 or 3 year job assignment, certainly not an issue.
Posted on 6/3/21 at 4:44 pm to baldona
quote:
I don't have a lot of experience with LDS and I agree they are mostly a friendly group. But acting like you won't at times be an outsider and they do some rather unique things, would be completely ignorant. I don't think its a great reason to not move to Utah, but depending on your personality and expectation it certainly seems like something that should be experienced and considered if its for a more permanent move. If this was a 1 or 3 year job assignment, certainly not an issue.
I couldn't agree more. But from my own experience its akin to Baptists poking fun at Catholics because of how much we genuflect and how much we stand-up/sit-down during Mass. To read comments from people who've never been to Utah, of have taken ski trips here you'd think Mormons are an alien race conducting sacrifices and have acid for blood. If you give respect you get respect with most people and families. Its a new religion and some of the dogma is indeed weird to the unexposed, but if you know your own religion it all can be a bit weird if you go far enough back historically. Me and mine just chose to show respect and not cast stones or be skeptical. My observation is that this is particularly important for Mormons because they were run out of town every place they established a community, until they arrived in largely uninhabited Utah at great sacrifice, which is now their homeland essentially.
Posted on 6/3/21 at 5:02 pm to Aubie Spr96
quote:
I've found Midwest people to be friendly, but not Southern friendly.
alpine,
I was hoping to spend a lot more time out there as my company had a development office there. COVID shut that office down and now everyone is working remote. Love to get a condo or something there and rent it during the school year and use it myself during the summer. Still might do it.
I'm waiting for the next correction then I'd like to buy down in St George. I have a buddy who works for Orbital ATK who's about to sell his SLC condo. Its big for a codo (2200 sq ft?). This is a unit in the same complex, same layout:
Millcreek-SLC Area Condo
Address is roughhly 38th S. and W. Temple. I can ask him if this fits what your looking for. He told me he's going to list it for $490-ish, but with no commission I'm sure you could get him to move. Its a big place for a condo and three stories. It abuts a TRAX station so we often just meet over there and take TRAX to downtown so no one is driving.
Posted on 6/3/21 at 5:46 pm to alpinetiger
you can ignore me all you want, but I am clearly not alone in my opinions or experiences on this thread. Perhaps you should consider that your perspective is not as universal as you seem to think. I've given you some factual examples of my real world experiences, as have others on this thread, and you have dismissed them out of hand because they do not align with your own. Are you at least open to the idea that not being a part of a group that most of your neighbors belong to might not be the best experience, even if your neighbors are outwardly polite?
I have nothing against LDS and respect them for many reasons. But the fact remains that whenever I have been around large groups of them for extended periods of time, even some who I would come to consider good friends, I always felt like an outsider and felt like there was a barrier that could not be broken down as long as I am not LDS. From discussions with others with mutual friends my experience/opinions are far from unique. Because of this, I personally wouldn't want to live in a very heavy LDS area while raising kids. YMMV (clearly it does).
Do you honestly feel that a non-mormon with kids moving to an LDS heavy area (not talking SLC) would not have a tough time socially?
I find it odd that you act as though my question is absurd when I explained I had a different experience when I was actively and in good faith attempting to learn more about the LDS church. I am glad to hear that my experience is not SOP, but it certainly kept me from trying again. Perhaps the fact that I was upfront about being secure in my own faith and not being interested in becoming LDS played a role, perhaps I just happened to ask the wrong guys, perhaps my experience is more common than you think.
I'm aware of this. You don't think this is an example of exclusivity? This may seem perfectly normal to you but I personally find it off-putting and I don't think I'm alone. To me it gives a feeling of not being good enough. I recognize that it's their religion and their rules, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. To continue with your catholic comparison, if I were an abortion supporting catholic (or an atheist or LDS for that matter) I can still watch my friends/family participate in the catholic sacraments of marriage and communion even if I can't participate myself. My wife though thinks it's absurd non-catholics can't take communion in a catholic church while I find it completely understandable so maybe it is all perspective.
I have nothing against LDS and respect them for many reasons. But the fact remains that whenever I have been around large groups of them for extended periods of time, even some who I would come to consider good friends, I always felt like an outsider and felt like there was a barrier that could not be broken down as long as I am not LDS. From discussions with others with mutual friends my experience/opinions are far from unique. Because of this, I personally wouldn't want to live in a very heavy LDS area while raising kids. YMMV (clearly it does).
Do you honestly feel that a non-mormon with kids moving to an LDS heavy area (not talking SLC) would not have a tough time socially?
quote:
Of course its allowed. Its open to the public. Its a church service. The whole ward (congregation) will likely welcome you in some way.
I find it odd that you act as though my question is absurd when I explained I had a different experience when I was actively and in good faith attempting to learn more about the LDS church. I am glad to hear that my experience is not SOP, but it certainly kept me from trying again. Perhaps the fact that I was upfront about being secure in my own faith and not being interested in becoming LDS played a role, perhaps I just happened to ask the wrong guys, perhaps my experience is more common than you think.
quote:
What you're referring to is the Temple Ceremony in your wedding example. Even many Mormons can't attend a Temple Ceremony if they aren't in "good standing".
I'm aware of this. You don't think this is an example of exclusivity? This may seem perfectly normal to you but I personally find it off-putting and I don't think I'm alone. To me it gives a feeling of not being good enough. I recognize that it's their religion and their rules, but that doesn't mean I have to like it. To continue with your catholic comparison, if I were an abortion supporting catholic (or an atheist or LDS for that matter) I can still watch my friends/family participate in the catholic sacraments of marriage and communion even if I can't participate myself. My wife though thinks it's absurd non-catholics can't take communion in a catholic church while I find it completely understandable so maybe it is all perspective.
Posted on 6/3/21 at 6:44 pm to ccard257
Indeed. quote:
you can ignore me all you want, but I am clearly not alone in my opinions or experiences on this thread. Perhaps you should consider that your perspective is not as universal as you seem to think. I've given you some factual examples of my real world experiences, as have others on this thread, and you have dismissed them out of hand because they do not align with your own. Are you at least open to the idea that not being a part of a group that most of your neighbors belong to might not be the best experience, even if your neighbors are outwardly polite?
I rely on random samples and the raw number of experiences I've had, not an acecdotal/small number of experiences. I don't dismiss your experiences out of hand, I just don't think its unique and this is illuminated like it is unique. It happens across cultures, skin color and religion. IMO because it involves a relatively obscure religion that has been maligned and people can poke fun..
quote:
I have nothing against LDS and respect them for many reasons. But the fact remains that whenever I have been around large groups of them for extended periods of time, even some who I would come to consider good friends, I always felt like an outsider and felt like there was a barrier that could not be broken down as long as I am not LDS. From discussions with others with mutual friends my experience/opinions are far from unique.
Could that be a self-determined, pre-ordained perspective? Kooky Mormon Theory? Look, I grew up Catholic and was an altar boy (no gay shenanigans). I had two Mormon friends growing up down south, that's it. I still attend Mass at the Cathedral of the Madeline in SLC. I'm not LDS. I'm in the scrub and my experience hasn't been your own. It might be your own pre-determined perspective.
quote:Sure. If you're going to move to Vernal or something similar. But in SLC, Ogden, Logan, Park City, St George? The point I'm trying to illustrate is that it would be the same thing in Texas, or Alabama, or anywhere. I grew up as a Catholic in Alabama. How do you think that went over?
Do you honestly feel that a non-mormon with kids moving to an LDS heavy area (not talking SLC) would not have a tough time socially?
Still I never felt this psychological BS you are conjuring up with your friends about Mormons. Its the same thing. New Orlineans are more exclusive and peculiar than Mormons for chrissakes.
Posted on 6/3/21 at 7:16 pm to specchaser
quote:
I applaud your move but as an attorney in La. with the same level of experience as you, how do you plan to make the career change? I'm asking for my own curiosity. I'd love to move(kids are in the teens now, so not till they finish high school), but my dilemma is I don't want to start over in the legal profession.
That’s a great question and I’m still trying to figure out exactly what that is currently. I do know I’m about done with the legal profession lol. Teaching is always an option. Also could work for the state government in something like their dept of labor etc. obviously it would probably be a pay cut, but oh well.
For the quality of life I think it’s worth it.
The pluses are that public school would now be an actual option. That would be $$$$ we would save per month instead of private school tuition. Also we’ve done a good job of getting rid of most of our debts. My student loans were paid off as of last year (yes, Loyola was expensive lol) and we have almost knocked out our last credit card. We have a nice chunk of equity in our current house so it will be a nice pay day to put towards a new house there. Also come feb of next year no car notes whatsoever.
I’m going to be researching state jobs tonight as well as possible legal stuff out there that wouldn’t require me to take another bar exam. Can always hope.
This post was edited on 6/3/21 at 7:18 pm
Posted on 6/3/21 at 7:45 pm to alpinetiger
quote:
Sure. If you're going to move to Vernal or something similar. But in SLC, Ogden, Logan, Park City, St George? The point I'm trying to illustrate is that it would be the same thing in Texas, or Alabama, or anywhere. I grew up as a Catholic in Alabama. How do you think that went over?
With all due respect this is BS. I don’t think it’s a a major obstacle, but the idea that going into somewhere like Utah or another major LDS area to live among them is similar to being Catholic in Alabama is laughable. It’s closer to being Catholic in Tehran....ok maybe not, but that comparison is not laughably off.
The idea it’s not something to look into or consider is both terrible advice and ignorant. It absolutely is. That’s not to say many can’t accept it and have a great life. There’s a lot of places to consider out west though and one should consider all of the options Imo.
Posted on 6/3/21 at 8:09 pm to baldona
You're insane. You have lived in Utah and speaking from experience? I have for 20+ years. I'd rather the OT choose elswhere, but he's facing the same wall of negativity that always emerges. Fine with me. It's pretty bad-arse to live here. Great place to raise a family.
Carry on.
Carry on.
Posted on 6/3/21 at 8:38 pm to MattA
good luck and an update would be much appreciated. best of luck!
Posted on 6/3/21 at 9:56 pm to MattA
On the move out to Bend, Utah really stood out to me as an incredibly beautiful state. Ogden seems like a pretty cool place to live. If you like New Wave/Post punk music, they probably have the best radio station in the country (Wave 103).
Posted on 6/3/21 at 10:02 pm to MattA
The Mormons have always been very nice and welcoming to me.
Posted on 6/3/21 at 10:40 pm to ccard257
(no message)
This post was edited on 5/4/22 at 9:48 pm
Posted on 6/4/21 at 6:40 am to TigerSaintInDallas
A friend of mine’s son attended Univ of Utah on an athletic scholarship. Kid is from out of state and not Mormon. His stats were better than those who have “made their mission trip” and they got more playing time. This was recently. State school in Salt Lake but even so the Mormon influence is undeniable. That said, I like their politics and Utah’s terrain and would move there in a heartbeat.
Posted on 6/4/21 at 8:36 am to TigerSaintInDallas
I have always been struck by how clean Utah is, and how polite and friendly people are. I think it’s two things, it’s a homogenous population, and it’s the church.
What makes Utah a good place to live, is the Church and it’s members. And that’s the trade off you have to accept, if you choose to live there.
What makes Utah a good place to live, is the Church and it’s members. And that’s the trade off you have to accept, if you choose to live there.
This post was edited on 6/4/21 at 8:39 am
Posted on 6/4/21 at 10:01 am to baldona
quote:
With all due respect this is BS. I don’t think it’s a a major obstacle, but the idea that going into somewhere like Utah or another major LDS area to live among them is similar to being Catholic in Alabama is laughable. It’s closer to being Catholic in Tehran....ok maybe not, but that comparison is not laughably off.
The idea it’s not something to look into or consider is both terrible advice and ignorant. It absolutely is. That’s not to say many can’t accept it and have a great life. There’s a lot of places to consider out west though and one should consider all of the options Imo.
What seems to me to be the difference in what I've heard is that so much social life of LDS revolves around the church. Are there a ton of backslidden Mormons in Ogden, Logan, etc like there are Baptists in Alabama, or Catholics in New Orleans who just go thru the motions because it's what they're supposed to do, but live however they want 6 other days?
Now I can see that HS kids have lots of school activities. That stuff would be fine. But if many outside activities are through the church, well that's not so great. At least from my perspective, LDS isn't based on Biblical teaching. I think it's closer to me allowing my children to go to Muslim or Hindu events than to Catholic, Baptist, or Methodist stuff. It's that most of us don't consider LDS Christian and wouldn't want to send our kids to their church. I'd send my kids to Catholic or Methodist services, and I'm Baptist.
Posted on 6/4/21 at 10:39 am to alpinetiger
quote:
You have lived in Utah and speaking from experience?
No but I lived in Hawaii not far from the LDS community there in the Laei temple on the North Shore. My parents had friends that were members there. Its one of the larger LDS communities outside of the Utah area.
Again, OP wasn't hell bent on Utah. Again, I'm not saying the LDS community is terrible or bad. Generally speaking I agree there's certainly more positives then negatives. But if the OP can move anywhere out west, I definitely think its worth going there first to experience it with that as one of the many factors they should consider on the location.
I'm curious if you have kids Alpinetiger?
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