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re: 2021 Lakers Thread
Posted on 5/20/22 at 3:49 pm to teke184
Posted on 5/20/22 at 3:49 pm to teke184
quote:
The Bucks might be in the coaching market because their coach’s offensive sets suck
They just won the title less than a year ago. It took 7 games to put them out with their 2nd best player (and closer) out with energy. I think thr coach should have another year or two grace.
Now, since he is the lead assistant, maybe the coach is about to resign and he is the coach in waiting. I can see him sticking around for that. Is that what you mean?
quote:
It’s not like waking into a total snake pit like the Lake Show where you don’t have a starting lineup let alone a roster as of now.
How many of James' former coaches never got another coaching job? I remember the foreign Cavs coach that he ran off. But I think most get other jobs pretty regularly..
1
Posted on 5/20/22 at 4:06 pm to brmark70816
David Blatt said “frick it” to the NBA after his experiences with LeBron.
Spoelstra survived LeBron mainly because Riley told LeBron to frick off.
Lue got another chance but it took a few years and the Lakers lowballed him when he wanted to go there despite LeBron wanting him.
Mike Brown didn’t miss a beat after his first firing, going to the Clippers and Cavs again afterward, but has been mired as the Warriors’ assistant head coach for years. And now the Kings are hiring him.
Vogel hasn’t been in any discussions to land elsewhere after getting jettisoned two years after a title.
When I say “damage to a coach’s career”, part of it is that people get no credit for a team’s success with LeBron present yet get most of the blame when it fails. Doubly so when LeBron does dumb shite like demand the team trade for someone who doesn’t fit, like Westbrook, and the coach catches the blame for not making it work.
Spoelstra survived LeBron mainly because Riley told LeBron to frick off.
Lue got another chance but it took a few years and the Lakers lowballed him when he wanted to go there despite LeBron wanting him.
Mike Brown didn’t miss a beat after his first firing, going to the Clippers and Cavs again afterward, but has been mired as the Warriors’ assistant head coach for years. And now the Kings are hiring him.
Vogel hasn’t been in any discussions to land elsewhere after getting jettisoned two years after a title.
When I say “damage to a coach’s career”, part of it is that people get no credit for a team’s success with LeBron present yet get most of the blame when it fails. Doubly so when LeBron does dumb shite like demand the team trade for someone who doesn’t fit, like Westbrook, and the coach catches the blame for not making it work.
Posted on 5/20/22 at 4:15 pm to teke184
I get what you mean. There is a risk.
Wasn't Vogel on the hot seat last summer? I know they gave him a one year extension. But they were looking to move him from the time they hired him. It was a weird hire..
Wasn't Vogel on the hot seat last summer? I know they gave him a one year extension. But they were looking to move him from the time they hired him. It was a weird hire..
Posted on 5/20/22 at 5:13 pm to brmark70816
The Buss family got him when they wanted a better coach but were also too fricking cheap to pay them.
IIRC, they only wanted to offer a 3 year deal to anyone instead of a five year deal which is standard for most coaches. That shite combined with Lue not wanting to give them a discount since he was still getting payoffs from Gilbert for getting fired in Cleveland is how they got him to begin with.
You want the best, pay the best.
You go cheap on a coach then use them as a cumrag when the organization’s mistakes catch up to them, you find it hard to get your next coach without a major overpay.
IIRC, they only wanted to offer a 3 year deal to anyone instead of a five year deal which is standard for most coaches. That shite combined with Lue not wanting to give them a discount since he was still getting payoffs from Gilbert for getting fired in Cleveland is how they got him to begin with.
You want the best, pay the best.
You go cheap on a coach then use them as a cumrag when the organization’s mistakes catch up to them, you find it hard to get your next coach without a major overpay.
Posted on 5/24/22 at 7:52 pm to teke184
Fun article in The Athletic by the Lakers beat writer:
Why bringing Russell Westbrook back would be a colossal mistake for the Lakers
Why bringing Russell Westbrook back would be a colossal mistake for the Lakers
quote:
As The Athletic’s Sam Amick reported last week, the Lakers are now strongly considering the possibility of keeping Westbrook because of the hardball stance the league is currently taking in trade negotiations.
Teams have been demanding the inclusion of at least one first-round pick to take on Westbrook’s massive expiring contract, according to league sources. Rival teams know how much of a public trainwreck last season was for the Lakers, and they’re not looking to do Los Angeles any favors by helping them off of Westbrook’s contract.
Posted on 5/24/22 at 7:53 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
As of now, they have no intention of using a first-round pick to facilitate a Westbrook trade, according to league sources.
And it’s not merely a bluff or tactic to try to regain leverage in trade talks. That may be an ancillary motive, sure, but per league sources, there is a sentiment among some within the franchise that the right coach and a better supporting cast could smooth over Westbrook’s awkward fit with James and Davis.
Despite the Lakers’ due diligence with their various roster-building paths, retaining Westbrook would be a grave mistake.
There is no salvaging the situation. He’s unwilling to adapt — and clearly unaware that he needs to. Unless the Lakers are willing to punt on another James-Davis season, their best option is to either trade Westbrook — and send out a first-round pick or two if the market doesn’t soften — or to send him home and proceed without him next season.
There is little evidence that Westbrook can be the player the Lakers need him to be, even with a new head coach and if the Lakers can somehow manage to improve their supporting cast with players that bolster Westbrook’s skill set.
Westbrook’s numbers were solid on the surface — he averaged 18.3 points, 7.1 assists and 7.5 rebounds in 78 games last season — but he was a central figure in the Lakers’ struggles. He ranked last among all Lakers in plus-minus (minus-211 in 2,678 minutes) and had the second worst on-off net differential (minus-2.4) among the nine Lakers that played 1,000-plus minutes last season. (Only Avery Bradley was worse at minus-4.3.)
Westbrook failed to live up to his $44.2 million salary and his billing as a third star. Most advanced metrics portray him as a barely positive player or a net negative. His demise has been debated for years, but this past season, Westbrook starkly dropped off in multiple categories. There were more areas in which he hurt the Lakers than helped them.
Westbrook is still seemingly at his best when he’s running the show offensively — it’s no coincidence his best offensive performance came in Charlotte without James and Davis on the floor— but he ran the show terribly last season. The Lakers were 0-5 with Westbrook as the only star and 20-32 (a 32-win pace over 82 games) with Westbrook and only one of James or Davis.
Westbrook can no longer carry the burden of successfully being the offensive focal point, which is precisely what the Lakers brought him in to do when James and/or Davis miss time due to injury.
He doesn’t fit next to James or Davis, who both are at their best with the ball in their hands and when closer to the paint. They need surrounding teammates that can shoot 3s, space the floor, cut in a timely manner, screen and relocate without the ball. Westbrook does none of those things.
James, Davis and Westbrook were just 11-10 together — a 43-win pace over an 82-game season. The Lakers had a minus-3.5 net rating in the trio’s 393 minutes together, a mark worse than the Lakers’ minus-2.9 net rating as a team. Los Angeles was technically better when its three stars didn’t share the floor. That’s a problem when trying to build out starting and closing lineups with Westbrook.
quote:
An exception is found when we dig deeper: The Davis-James-Westbrook trio had a -0.1 net differential in 590 possessions without a traditional center, according to Cleaning the Glass. But even that is only mildly promising. With optimal conditions (no center clogging the lane and two shooters around them, in most cases), the Lakers were still a slight negative with their three stars on the floor.
That is their only path forward if they keep Westbrook. The Lakers’ next head coach, who will have to put a plan in place in case they keep Westbrook, should start there: Davis has to play center exclusively. It’s the only way to make the offensive spacing kind of work.
That should already be the case — and to his credit, Davis logged 76 percent of his minutes at center last season, the second-highest figure of his career. Davis, however, has historically preferred to play alongside another 7-footer that can handle the more physically grueling center assignments.
This post was edited on 5/24/22 at 7:55 pm
Posted on 5/24/22 at 7:56 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
In the scenario that the Lakers can’t find a trade that they find palatable — certainly a possibility — sending Westbrook home would be the next-best scenario. It wouldn’t be ideal to eat his salary for the 2022-23 season, but it would be even less ideal to run back an ill-fitting core.
It’s no longer a guarantee that James and Davis can remain healthy for 82 games after back-to-back injury-riddled seasons. And the Lakers are seemingly better off developing a more egalitarian offensive approach around their role players than trying to use Westbrook’s inefficient and volume-based attack.
Both sides seemingly want to move on from each other. There is also significant value for the Lakers in establishing continuity as early as possible next season. Keeping Westbrook around to try to move him by the trade deadline would disrupt that continuity and make it more difficult for the Lakers to build a coherent roster and rotation.
Westbrook should remain a Laker if there is no other option. It’s better to keep him than to make a bad trade. But the Lakers’ best chance out of their current predicament is to not have Westbrook on the floor — be it by trading him to another team or by sending him home — on opening night.
Posted on 5/24/22 at 10:29 pm to GOP_Tiger
quote:
Davis, however, has historically preferred to play alongside another 7-footer that can handle the more physically grueling center assignments.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 6:05 am to GOP_Tiger
quote:
But the Lakers’ best chance out of their current predicament is to not have Westbrook on the floor — be it by trading him to another team or by sending him home — on opening night.
I suggested sending him home (same as the rockets did with wall) in the trade thread and no one agreed with me. It’s the only move if they can’t trade him. Playing him is suicidal
so they should start and play him 40 mins a game obviously
Posted on 5/25/22 at 9:23 am to cgrand
He’d have a role possibly if he came in off the bench as a 6th man when Lebaby takes breathers. But his ego won’t allow that.
Love hearing the whole league wants that future first or no bueno on a trade. They fuuuuuucked.
Love hearing the whole league wants that future first or no bueno on a trade. They fuuuuuucked.
This post was edited on 5/25/22 at 9:25 am
Posted on 5/25/22 at 9:49 am to cgrand
quote:
suggested sending him home (same as the rockets did with wall) in the trade thread and no one agreed with me. It’s the only move if they can’t trade him. Playing him is suicidal
Or waive/stretch him and save 40-60M in taxes. But yeah, take a moral stand and pay all that money makes more sense..
Posted on 5/25/22 at 9:55 am to Townedrunkard
Westbrook, LeGM and Day to Davis may end up heros for the Pels in the long run.
Posted on 5/25/22 at 2:06 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Or waive/stretch him and save 40-60M in taxes. But yeah, take a moral stand and pay all that money makes more sense..
you pay it now or pay it later dude
they aren’t going to avoid it
Posted on 5/26/22 at 9:03 am to teke184
quote:
You go cheap on a coach then use them as a cumrag when the organization’s mistakes catch up to them, you find it hard to get your next coach without a major overpay.
ok hear me out...they have to pay him his 46MM no matter what. HIRE WESTBROOK AS THE NEW HEAD COACH
Posted on 5/26/22 at 2:13 pm to cgrand
I just saw a video on the Clippers and how they are going to reset this summer. I knew Balmer was rich. I didn't realize that he was the richest owner (80B) and worth more than the next 5 owners combined.
LINK
If they just resign their players, they would have a total payroll of 334M. That's almost 200M over the tax line. All that and they still may not be that good. Balmer can't be happy. He wants Championships.
The point of the video is that they want to win and are going to make a big move. So they are going big game hunting (Durant? Lillard?). New arena does not open until 2024, so 2 more years in the Lakers building.
Can the Lakers stand the Clippers finally passing them by? If they can't compete, would they sell to deeper pockets?
LINK
If they just resign their players, they would have a total payroll of 334M. That's almost 200M over the tax line. All that and they still may not be that good. Balmer can't be happy. He wants Championships.
The point of the video is that they want to win and are going to make a big move. So they are going big game hunting (Durant? Lillard?). New arena does not open until 2024, so 2 more years in the Lakers building.
Can the Lakers stand the Clippers finally passing them by? If they can't compete, would they sell to deeper pockets?
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:25 pm to brmark70816
quote:Huh, you must have heard wrong. That number has to include the luxury taxes as well.
If they just resign their players, they would have a total payroll of 334M. That's almost 200M over the tax line. All that and they still may not be that good. Balmer can't be happy. He wants Championships.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 4:35 pm to brmark70816
quote:Didn't watch the video but the payroll would be lower, the total payroll+tax bill would be $334m likely in your scenario.
If they just resign their players, they would have a total payroll of 334M. That's almost 200M over the tax line.
They're at $170mil payroll right now if the 2 options are taken with just backend rotation guys that are free agents. Only decent one is Hartenstein.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 5:40 pm to shel311
quote:
Didn't watch the video but the payroll would be lower, the total payroll+tax bill would be $334m likely in your scenario.
Sorry, that is what I meant. Total would be 334M. Resigning one guy for around 11M costs over 30. It's crazy.
Posted on 5/26/22 at 6:17 pm to brmark70816
quote:I can't remember if it was Oubre or someone else but I remember GS signing a dude for $10-15 and the total cost was like $70 mil or some shite.
Resigning one guy for around 11M costs over 30. It's crazy.
May not be exact but it was wild how much they were spending 1 year for an average player.
Posted on 5/27/22 at 7:36 pm to shel311
Darvin Ham was just hired
Ham takes a no win job scenario as his first job
Ham takes a no win job scenario as his first job
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