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re: Is Willie Green a "good" Head Coach
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:17 am to DallasTiger45
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:17 am to DallasTiger45
quote:
Given the turnover at our HC job and the firing of Monty after he went to the playoffs, I think another season of stability has its own benefits.
Absolutely, this. We have been extremely unstable at head coach since Zion was drafted and AD was traded. Stan Van Gundy was an obviously bad hire and had to go, but Green has had a lot of positive qualities and has objectively brought us to a better record this year than last. We are still operating as a franchise with a trust deficit, and we can't go pushing out a respected coach after only his second season, especially with his star players each missing over half the season
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Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:20 am to Fun Bunch
In hindsight it was really stupid to not bring in a veteran lead assistant. There's a reason every new head coach gets saddled with one.
The question now is, is the horse out of the barn already? Who can you bring in that would say the tough things to Willie that he would listen to?
The question now is, is the horse out of the barn already? Who can you bring in that would say the tough things to Willie that he would listen to?
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:43 am to longhorn22
quote:
Bump old threads instead of creating new ones.
Everyone is allowed to be pissed. Everyone should be able to ask some questions today, within reason.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:47 am to DallasTiger45
What coaches in the West would you take Willie over? Chauncey Billups and who else? Ham? Silas got fired. Only teams worse than the Pelicans were trying to tank at the end of the season.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:00 am to TigahJay
I’d take Willie over Kidd, Finch, Ham, Brown, Silas, that dork from OKC.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:05 am to ghost2most
Over Brown and Daigneult is kind of crazy
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:07 am to TigahJay
quote:Take Daignault, or however you spell it...what are your specific and tangible reasons you'd take him over Willie?
What coaches in the West would you take Willie over? Chauncey Billups and who else? Ham? Silas got fired. Only teams worse than the Pelicans were trying to tank at the end of the season.
His #1 option played 68 games, and their next 3 best players played over 70, so is he a better coach that lost 2 less games and beat us last night because his team had better health or because he's actually a better coach? If it's the latter, exactly what have you seen from him over the season in terms of scheme makes him better?
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:07 am to Fun Bunch
Is the Sophomore slump a thing for coaches?
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:08 am to Macintosh
quote:What's the tangible reason, other than health though?
Over Brown and Daigneult is kind of crazy
Flip it...Zion/Bi play 70+ games this season and SGA/Giddy and Sabonis/Fox play 74 total games, are we still arguing that those 2 are obviously better than Willie when they'd both likely miss the playoffs or play in and we'd probably be a 3 seed?
So again, if the obvious injuries aren't a valid excuse for Willie, then what are the tangible reasons in terms of schemes/rotation that they are better?
This post was edited on 4/13/23 at 11:09 am
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:12 am to Fun Bunch
He better than grandpas Gentry and Van Gundy.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:17 am to TigahJay
quote:
What coaches in the West would you take Willie over?
Why is it only the west? You said bottom 5 in the league.
I'm taking Willie over
Billups
Silas
Kidd
Ham
Put him in the same tier as Daigenault, Finch
A guy like Will Hardy is an incomplete for now
Then in the East just about every non-top 4 seed has huge question marks at coach other than Spo in Miami.
Nick Nurse is parting ways with toronto after a massive underachievement. Rick Carlisle used to be a good coach but it's been a whole lot of mediocre or worse for him the last 3-4 years. Even a guy like Thibs has shown he has a ceiling and he runs his guys into the ground.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:20 am to shel311
quote:
Take Daignault, or however you spell it...what are your specific and tangible reasons you'd take him over Willie?
His team had zero aspirations this season and beat the Pelicans last night in a must win game, moving on with a chance to beat Minnesota. Who looked like the better coach last night? Pelicans have clearly regressed this year under Willie. Offensive system has been so bad that even the players are talking to the media about it (Trey comments last week). Oh btw Willie is supposed to be a motivator coach but can’t motivate his best player to play.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:20 am to DallasTiger45
Willie is only getting fired if Griff is gone and we have a new FO. There is no way Griff gets to pick a 4th coach.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:29 am to Fun Bunch
Willie has some very distinct strengths and obvious weaknesses.
Strengths:
Two seasons in a row this team could have folded and found a way to make it to the postseason. He is very good at galvanizing the troops and getting them to believe in the culture and message.
He is also a good defensive coach. He has turned a roster with some very glaring defensive weaknesses into one that is a least competent.
Weaknesses:
He needs some top-level assisstants; especially an offensive coordinator.
This offense schemes are far too stagnant and just reverts to BI or CJ going one-on-one against a stacked defense. Part of this is due to Griff's poor roster construction, which has caused such a lack of spacing.
Willie's rotations at times are down right dreadful. There are far too many times where it is blatantly obvious that the 5 guys on the floor are terrible compliments to each other offensively, which ties into Willie's overall poor offensive scheme construction. Those Herb/J Rich combos can be an eyesore.
I think a large part of why the Pels lost to the Suns in the 1st round was due to Willie's taking far too long to realize that Jonas couldn't play in that series. He refused to play Nance and Jose big minutes until the 2nd half of game 3. It is inexcusable for him to throw Kyra out there (even though it was only 5 mins) to see if he could do something. You can't take that risk when you haven't gone to him in weeks. Especially if Dyson was healthy.
Is Willie a good coach?
He's a decent coach with the ability to be pretty good with very good assistants.
Is that good enough to be a coach that can win multiple playoff series?
I don't think so.
Strengths:
Two seasons in a row this team could have folded and found a way to make it to the postseason. He is very good at galvanizing the troops and getting them to believe in the culture and message.
He is also a good defensive coach. He has turned a roster with some very glaring defensive weaknesses into one that is a least competent.
Weaknesses:
He needs some top-level assisstants; especially an offensive coordinator.
This offense schemes are far too stagnant and just reverts to BI or CJ going one-on-one against a stacked defense. Part of this is due to Griff's poor roster construction, which has caused such a lack of spacing.
Willie's rotations at times are down right dreadful. There are far too many times where it is blatantly obvious that the 5 guys on the floor are terrible compliments to each other offensively, which ties into Willie's overall poor offensive scheme construction. Those Herb/J Rich combos can be an eyesore.
I think a large part of why the Pels lost to the Suns in the 1st round was due to Willie's taking far too long to realize that Jonas couldn't play in that series. He refused to play Nance and Jose big minutes until the 2nd half of game 3. It is inexcusable for him to throw Kyra out there (even though it was only 5 mins) to see if he could do something. You can't take that risk when you haven't gone to him in weeks. Especially if Dyson was healthy.
Is Willie a good coach?
He's a decent coach with the ability to be pretty good with very good assistants.
Is that good enough to be a coach that can win multiple playoff series?
I don't think so.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:43 am to Fun Bunch
He’s still learning. An average coach would not have made the play-in this year. They would have lost that lakers and Houston game and would not have been able to win the team back over. For example Jason Kidd loosing back to back to Charlotte and the Mavs collapsing. Willie lost one to Houston but then righted the ship.
For a head coach, this year was tough.
All the injuries,
drastic momentum swings as a result,
all the Zion distractions down the stretch,
not having your best player for 50+ games,
guys never having consistent roles,
your starting PG is a SG and is playing with a broken thumb,
having a damned if you do/don’t situation on offense/defense with Larry and JV at C,
managing emotional disappointment from going from #1 seed to #12,
not having competent shooters on the roster,
…
Yes these are excuses but Alvin Gentry only wins 35 games this year, not 42. Pop may have been able to get 45 or 46 of them but yeah, Willie’s a good coach who the whole team looks up to. He may need better assistants, a better roster, and he’s a not great yet, but he is an above average coach in this league with lots of potential.
For a head coach, this year was tough.
All the injuries,
drastic momentum swings as a result,
all the Zion distractions down the stretch,
not having your best player for 50+ games,
guys never having consistent roles,
your starting PG is a SG and is playing with a broken thumb,
having a damned if you do/don’t situation on offense/defense with Larry and JV at C,
managing emotional disappointment from going from #1 seed to #12,
not having competent shooters on the roster,
…
Yes these are excuses but Alvin Gentry only wins 35 games this year, not 42. Pop may have been able to get 45 or 46 of them but yeah, Willie’s a good coach who the whole team looks up to. He may need better assistants, a better roster, and he’s a not great yet, but he is an above average coach in this league with lots of potential.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:50 am to TigahJay
quote:What?
His team had zero aspirations
I'd bet you anything his team had playoff aspirations to start the season. Because you or I or whoever thought they didn't doesn't magically make the coach better.
This happens a lot. Person thinks team will be bad. Team is good, so it must be based on the magic ability of the coaches and not that just the person misjudged the players.
They have a good team with good players who all played 68 or more games.
quote:Again, you're ONLY basing it on the result.
Who looked like the better coach last night?
I've still yet to see any tangible reasons based on schemes or anything. It's just, OKC was better than i thought they'd be and they beat the Pels, so their coach is better than ours.
Nevermind that we're missing our best player, and they had the best player on the court.
quote:Were they not motivated or not good enough? I remember at the end of the 3rd quarter, 75% of the game thread posters said we gave up. 2 minutes into the 4th, we were down 2 points. So again, were they not motivated when they made that comeback? Or did they simply play a team who is just as good as we are without our best player, and in a 1 game sample size, anything can happen?
Oh btw Willie is supposed to be a motivator coach but can’t motivate his best player to play.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:54 am to From Rice to Ingram
quote:
He is a below average head coach for me at this moment. Could certainly improve but is he willing to really take a look at his short comings and adjust? Time will tell.
That's why I said relatively speaking. I couldn't think of 15 current NBA head coaches I'd rather have over willie, so he's slightly above the average
Posted on 4/13/23 at 12:32 pm to Fun Bunch
He’s no different than the past failed coaches that they’ve had. Team only plays well in spurts. Under achieves the rest of the time. Can’t believe I fell for his shite
Posted on 4/13/23 at 12:33 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
He’s no different than the past failed coaches that they’ve had
Let's not get crazy. I'm not sure Alvin Gentry has a fully functional brain
Posted on 4/13/23 at 1:00 pm to Lester Earl
I don't recall the players quiting on Green like they did with both Gentry and Van Gundy. Both predecessors were X and Os coaches that couldn't motivate their players when the chips are down.
Willie definitely need better assistants but he can do something the last two guys couldn't. Which was getting them to buy in and stay the course when shite hits the fan.
Willie definitely need better assistants but he can do something the last two guys couldn't. Which was getting them to buy in and stay the course when shite hits the fan.
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