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Message
OK, a quick question. I'm pretty much a complete moran when it comes to...
Posted on 5/17/23 at 10:22 am
Posted on 5/17/23 at 10:22 am
...extensions, luxury tax etc...So, somebody that knows, can the Pels go ahead and extend Herb to something like 4yr/$70M this summer and still have a realistic way to stay under the luxury tax for this upcoming season? And when is the final date, by which time the Pels must extend Herb, IF they are gonna do it this year? Thanks.
5
Posted on 5/17/23 at 10:22 am to Dinky Mulberry
Negative
They can do the extension this year, and have his new salary kick in the following year. Just like with the Zion contract. Only way we stay under the tax this season, would if the current salaries of all players stay about the same.
They can do the extension this year, and have his new salary kick in the following year. Just like with the Zion contract. Only way we stay under the tax this season, would if the current salaries of all players stay about the same.
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 10:24 am
Posted on 5/17/23 at 10:32 am to Dinky Mulberry
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Posted on 5/17/23 at 10:37 am to Dinky Mulberry
quote:It would take also moving a salary like Jval to a team that can take him into their cap space and not sending us salary matching contracts back.
can the Pels go ahead and extend Herb to something like 4yr/$70M this summer and still have a realistic way to stay under the luxury tax for this upcoming season?
It could theoretically be done but it's unlikely, and I think the team would be better off just waiting it out. The only way it backfires is if Herb takes a huge leap during the next season and his value skyrockets.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 10:57 am to Dinky Mulberry
quote:
extensions, luxury tax etc...So, somebody that knows, can the Pels go ahead and extend Herb to something like 4yr/$70M this summer and still have a realistic way to stay under the luxury tax for this upcoming season? And when is the final date, by which time the Pels must extend Herb, IF they are gonna do it this year? Thanks.
I know it’s semantics but the words matter here. An extension has limitations on how much you can give a player in his first year that is based on his current salary. Herb will definitely not sign an extension. We could decline his team option and then resign him this year, but we don’t have his bird rights till next year so we are limited on what we can offer.
The best option is to just exercise the team option for this year. Next year he’s a restricted free agent and we have his bird rights so even though there is a risk he blows up and would demand more money, we are much more protected as teams don’t normally throw huge contracts at RFA.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 11:04 am to Baron
quote:
We could decline his team option and then resign him this year, but we don’t have his bird rights till next year so we are limited on what we can offer.
But we do have his Early Bird Rights which lets you give him MLE money. I think the Pels should offer it at a time where "the system" is the bad guy limiting what they can pay.
If Herb signs a 4/$50ish deal that would be solid value. If you could have $50 million today, or $80-$100 million next year assuming you don't get critcally injured or shoot bad from 3 all year, which would you choose? I think most people go with the $50.
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 11:06 am
Posted on 5/17/23 at 11:09 am to TigerinATL
Man i love Herb, but i'm not giving him 4/$80M. That's ridiculous.
4/$55M is more realistic to me, 4/$60M at most.
4/$55M is more realistic to me, 4/$60M at most.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 11:11 am to TigerinATL
quote:
But we do have his Early Bird Rights which lets you give him MLE money.
Maybe they changed it in the new CBA but isn’t early bird rights also limited based on the player’s current salary similar to an extension? I thought that they could only give 150% raise from what his salary was or something like that (which for Herb would limit him to like 3 million).
Edit: Nevermind. I think what you are saying is that we could decline his option and use the MLE to resign him. Bird rights or Early bird rights wouldn’t matter then. That would take some tinkering to avoid the tax and we would have $0 money left to add anyone through FA but it could be done.
-Renounce Hayes and Jrich
-Cut Temple
-Decline Willy
-Dump Kira
Then we could use the full MLE on Herb which would start at 12m. If we sign our draft pick we’d be around 3 million under the tax line for this year. We would be extremely limited on improving the roster from that point on as we’d be essentially limited to taking less salary back in any trade. We would also be prohibited from using the new rule allowing MLE as a trade exception which would further limit our ability to improve the roster this year
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 11:57 am
Posted on 5/17/23 at 11:17 am to TigerinATL
quote:But would Herb?
But we do have his Early Bird Rights which lets you give him MLE money. I think the Pels should offer it at a time where "the system" is the bad guy limiting what they can pay.
If Herb signs a 4/$50ish deal that would be solid value. If you could have $50 million today, or $80-$100 million next year assuming you don't get critcally injured or shoot bad from 3 all year, which would you choose? I think most people go with the $50.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 11:21 am to NOSHAU
It's hard to say with Herb. He certainly seems like the type that would delay gratification for a better outcome. At the same time, you never know when an injury will end it all.
I also don't think MLE level money is a clear underpay. He would have to take a step forward to get more than that. So he's not costing himself money unless he believes he can consistently play like he finished the season.
I also don't think MLE level money is a clear underpay. He would have to take a step forward to get more than that. So he's not costing himself money unless he believes he can consistently play like he finished the season.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 11:59 am to TigerinATL
quote:
I think the Pels should offer it at a time where "the system" is the bad guy limiting what they can pay.
Problem comes that we can’t offer it unless we decline his option. That gets risky.
Best thing is to let him play out his minimum deal this year then have his full bird rights.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:04 pm to TigerinATL
4-60 sounds about right for Herb, doesn’t kick in until 24 season. The bigger obstacle, in my option, is TM3 who may demand a near max extension next year. Trick will be to use Val (who I’d like to keep), JRich’s salary and picks to plug in a 4-5 that can defend on the perimeter and a bench shooter for this year while not compromising TM3’s raise.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:14 pm to Pistol44
4/55 should be the absolute max he gets. He should get somewhere between Bandon Clarke, Robert Williams, and Dorian Finney-Smith ranges.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:20 pm to supe12sta12z
I’d like for the Pels to lock Herb up in that range as long as it doesn't compromise TM3 who will likely get North of $25 per the following year.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 12:38 pm to supe12sta12z
quote:
4/55 should be the absolute max he gets. He should get somewhere between Bandon Clarke, Robert Williams, and Dorian Finney-Smith ranges.
Not terrible player comps, but that’s also old cap numbers. History says we use the MLE as a starting point, which is 12.2 this year. Adding yearly raises and the absolute minimum to resign Herb is probably 4/60
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:00 pm to Dinky Mulberry
quote:
4yr/$70M
Let's not go that high. I want Herb here for a long time, even if his 3pt% stays poo poo, but that's an overpay.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:04 pm to Pistol44
quote:
Trick will be to use Val (who I’d like to keep), JRich’s salary and picks to plug in a 4-5 that can defend on the perimeter and a bench shooter for this year while not compromising TM3’s raise.
I know bigs often take a while to develop, but Myles Turner and Jarrett Allen both started the 2nd half of their rookie year. If you can draft a big that's ready to start by year 2, that would go a long way to keeping everything together.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:16 pm to Pistol44
quote:Jrich is a free agent, but to the main point, if you want that type of center and to keep TM3 when his extension comes due, that center will have to come from the draft more than likely.
Trick will be to use Val (who I’d like to keep), JRich’s salary and picks to plug in a 4-5 that can defend on the perimeter and a bench shooter for this year while not compromising TM3’s raise.
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:22 pm to shel311
I wonder how much Naz Reid will demand this off season.
Edit: supposedly he is seeking 10mil/year. If that’s the case, sign him immediately.
Edit: supposedly he is seeking 10mil/year. If that’s the case, sign him immediately.
This post was edited on 5/17/23 at 2:24 pm
Posted on 5/17/23 at 2:45 pm to Pistol44
quote:
I’d like for the Pels to lock Herb up in that range as long as it doesn't compromise TM3 who will likely get North of $25 per the following year.
Give them both their money. CJ is odd man out if we need to make money work. I'm not losing Trey or Herb because I'm paying CJ 30m/yr. Frick that, dump CJ
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