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Realistic paths to getting better in 2023-2024
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:33 am
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:33 am
Acknowledging that this team would have been better (potentially much better) with a healthy Zion/BI…there are still areas to improve. Plus we need to start planning for those guys to miss time during the year. It’s too big a trend to ignore.
1) Trey Murphy likely played himself into damn near untouchable status down the stretch. I don’t think he’s getting traded.
2) BI wants to be here and played really well for us this year. I don’t think he’s getting traded either.
3) frustration with Zion is high, but his combination of immense talent and poor availability likely means any trade would be .75 cents on the dollar. Not a good way for a small market team to do business. He’s likely not being traded either.
4) CJ was fine considering he was playing through injury. He could maybe be available if there’s a clear upgrade but I doubt he’s on the move either.
5) Herb played well down the stretch and *should* be amendable to a nice extension this offseason that sets his family up for life while also providing the Pels a starter level player at below market cost as the cap moves upward. I don’t think he’s getting traded.
So when talking players under contract with value, that leaves
1) Naji and Jose. Really like them, they’re underpaid for NBA caliber rotation players. They’re also the type of decent young guys that can be attached in an upgrade trade along with picks.
2) Jonas- the big fella has been a consummate professional here, but I think it’s run its course. We need a more mobile or rim protecting big to cover up some defensive deficiencies at other spots. I think it’s more likely than not that he’s traded.
3) Dyson- this may be controversial, but I think he’s not so untouchable as he was at the trade deadline. He did not have a strong finish to the season, and Willie lost trust in him. His inclusion in a trade increases the magnitude of upgrade we could make. I think they at least see what’s out there.
What kind of trades would you like to see us pull off?
1) Trey Murphy likely played himself into damn near untouchable status down the stretch. I don’t think he’s getting traded.
2) BI wants to be here and played really well for us this year. I don’t think he’s getting traded either.
3) frustration with Zion is high, but his combination of immense talent and poor availability likely means any trade would be .75 cents on the dollar. Not a good way for a small market team to do business. He’s likely not being traded either.
4) CJ was fine considering he was playing through injury. He could maybe be available if there’s a clear upgrade but I doubt he’s on the move either.
5) Herb played well down the stretch and *should* be amendable to a nice extension this offseason that sets his family up for life while also providing the Pels a starter level player at below market cost as the cap moves upward. I don’t think he’s getting traded.
So when talking players under contract with value, that leaves
1) Naji and Jose. Really like them, they’re underpaid for NBA caliber rotation players. They’re also the type of decent young guys that can be attached in an upgrade trade along with picks.
2) Jonas- the big fella has been a consummate professional here, but I think it’s run its course. We need a more mobile or rim protecting big to cover up some defensive deficiencies at other spots. I think it’s more likely than not that he’s traded.
3) Dyson- this may be controversial, but I think he’s not so untouchable as he was at the trade deadline. He did not have a strong finish to the season, and Willie lost trust in him. His inclusion in a trade increases the magnitude of upgrade we could make. I think they at least see what’s out there.
What kind of trades would you like to see us pull off?
17
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:34 am to DallasTiger45
quote:
Realistic paths to getting better in 2023-2024
1. Zion's health
2. Shooting
3. More shooting
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:38 am to Broski
quote:Add rim protection somewhere in there
1. Zion's health
2. Shooting
3. More shooting
We were dead last in the league at opponent's FG% at the rim.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:43 am to shel311
I'd like to see us find a way to land Naz Reid. He has the flexibility to play both the 4 and 5.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:45 am to shel311
Fire training staff.
Hire lead offensive assistant.
Trade Val and picks for an upgrade at C.
Entertain offers for CJ but keep him unless we get a great deal. Make it clear to him that he will never play PG again and have him practice exclusively off ball. Delete CJ ISO from the playbook.
Entertain offers for Zion but keep him unless we get a great deal.
Extend Herb.
Have Dyson work nonstop on getting stronger and get his confidence back.
Trade Naji, Kira for shooters and or sign bench 3 point specalists (at least 2).
Fire Griff (not happening but I wish)
Hire lead offensive assistant.
Trade Val and picks for an upgrade at C.
Entertain offers for CJ but keep him unless we get a great deal. Make it clear to him that he will never play PG again and have him practice exclusively off ball. Delete CJ ISO from the playbook.
Entertain offers for Zion but keep him unless we get a great deal.
Extend Herb.
Have Dyson work nonstop on getting stronger and get his confidence back.
Trade Naji, Kira for shooters and or sign bench 3 point specalists (at least 2).
Fire Griff (not happening but I wish)
This post was edited on 4/13/23 at 10:47 am
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:46 am to Broski
quote:
1. Zion's health
2. Shooting
3. More shooting
A better training staff and Bagger Vance.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:49 am to DallasTiger45
quote:
Jose
Fans might burn the arena down. And I wouldn’t blame them.
There’s no scenario where trading Jose gets us back “Jose-to-us” level value. He’s the only blue collar, shithead, energetic spark plug on our team. The home crowds noticeably had less energy without him. The team noticeably had less energy without him. And he’s a solid player on a joke contract to boot.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:49 am to Broski
quote:
1. Zion's health
:/
Agree on shooting- how do we get it? Our top 5 moving forward is something like this (not starting 5 due to positions, but our *core* if you will)
CJ
BI
Herb
Trey
Zion
So a center who can shoot and rim protect would be nice. Also could use a true 2 guard who can fill it up off the bench. I think if they keep the late lottery pick you could take a rookie like Jordan Hawkins, Nick Smith, Keyonte George who can do that.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 10:58 am to DallasTiger45
quote:
Realistic paths to getting better in 2023-2024
0) healthy Zion
1) faster, more athletic at the 5
2) Herb continues to improve as a Scottie Pippen esque point forward and playmaker
3) Willie Green grows as a coach and we hire a veteran assistant
That’s my wishlist in order.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:04 am to ShamelessPel
quote:
Fans might burn the arena down. And I wouldn’t blame them. There’s no scenario where trading Jose gets us back “Jose-to-us” level value. He’s the only blue collar, shithead, energetic spark plug on our team. The home crowds noticeably had less energy without him. The team noticeably had less energy without him. And he’s a solid player on a joke contract to boot.
Make no mistake, I would hate to trade Jose for anyone, and would be PISSED if it’s not for a big time player. I love watching him play.
I think it’s more likely Naji goes than Jose because Jose has a more defined role with less redundancies on our current roster. His injury this year was definitely a big deal.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:09 am to DallasTiger45
sorry it didn't work out this year, guys. I only started paying attention the last 2 weeks of the season, as I'm just not a big NBA guy anymore. Appears to be a dysfunctional franchise. I hoped to get at least one more game just for the thread drama. But, it's over now. Maybe I will run into some of you at Trant, the OT and Saints talk.
Signing off on Pels until 2024
-The Goat
Signing off on Pels until 2024
-The Goat
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:19 am to DallasTiger45
quote:
any trade would be .75 cents on the dollar.
I’d take that ALL day
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:22 am to DallasTiger45
This is how I feel we should approach things:
PG: [True facilitator]/CJ McCollum/Jose Alvarado
SG: Herb Jones/Trey Murphy III/Naji Marshall
SF: Brandon Ingram/Trey Murphy III/Naji Marshall
PF: Zion Williamson/[Stretch PF/C]/Trey Murphy III
C: [Defensive starter]/[Stretch PF/C]/Billy Hernangomez
Tradable options to do so:
- Dyson Daniels
- Kira Lewis
- Larry Nance
- Jonas Valanciunas
- Picks
In a perfect world:
- Sign & Trade Kelly Olynyk (backup big secured) - give danny a 2nd since he's easy to please these days. Send back Hayes
- Trade for Monte Morris (starting PG secured) - I think it'll take a 1 to get him & send out Lewis to even it out.
- Ride Jonas & Nance for another year.
PG: Morris/McCollum (6th man)/Alvarado/Daniels
SG: Jones/McCollum (6th man)/TM3/Marshall
SF: Ingram/TM3/Marshall
PF: Williamson/Olynyk/Lidell
C: Valanciunas/Olynyk/Nance/Hernangomez
14 players, 1 in the draft = 15
PG: [True facilitator]/CJ McCollum/Jose Alvarado
SG: Herb Jones/Trey Murphy III/Naji Marshall
SF: Brandon Ingram/Trey Murphy III/Naji Marshall
PF: Zion Williamson/[Stretch PF/C]/Trey Murphy III
C: [Defensive starter]/[Stretch PF/C]/Billy Hernangomez
Tradable options to do so:
- Dyson Daniels
- Kira Lewis
- Larry Nance
- Jonas Valanciunas
- Picks
In a perfect world:
- Sign & Trade Kelly Olynyk (backup big secured) - give danny a 2nd since he's easy to please these days. Send back Hayes
- Trade for Monte Morris (starting PG secured) - I think it'll take a 1 to get him & send out Lewis to even it out.
- Ride Jonas & Nance for another year.
PG: Morris/McCollum (6th man)/Alvarado/Daniels
SG: Jones/McCollum (6th man)/TM3/Marshall
SF: Ingram/TM3/Marshall
PF: Williamson/Olynyk/Lidell
C: Valanciunas/Olynyk/Nance/Hernangomez
14 players, 1 in the draft = 15
This post was edited on 4/13/23 at 11:25 am
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:24 am to htran90
Monte Morris isn’t a serious starting PG for a top 6 seed imo
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:26 am to DallasTiger45
CJ cannot play PG for us if we expect to contend. He's a bad PG.
Tunnel vision and way too much dribbling.
I'd rather Herb at PG.
Another thing we have to do is somehow make Ingram a volume 3 point shooter. He can't just take 2 a game.
Tunnel vision and way too much dribbling.
I'd rather Herb at PG.
Another thing we have to do is somehow make Ingram a volume 3 point shooter. He can't just take 2 a game.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:29 am to ghost2most
quote:
CJ cannot play PG for us if we expect to contend. He's a bad PG.
BI was essentially our PG for large stretches this year
If we got a center who could shoot I would not be opposed to exploring a Herb/BI/Trey/Z/Shooting center starting 5
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:32 am to DallasTiger45
quote:
.75 cents on the dollar
Not even a full cent smh
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:53 am to DallasTiger45
Smart thoughtful analysis. I think I agree with most your takes. JV gotta go. Hate to say it. Too slow. Jaxson’s clown arse gots to go. Naji I don’t think I’ve ever seen a regression like that.
Needs: Quicker defensive big. Drive and dish ball handler who can consistently get in the lane. A call to the league office about the criminal off ball holding of BI.
Needs: Quicker defensive big. Drive and dish ball handler who can consistently get in the lane. A call to the league office about the criminal off ball holding of BI.
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:55 am to DallasTiger45
I dont think he's an elite pg. I think his presence allows your best guard come off the bench or at least play vs bench players while Morris can do the small things you need that complement bi/zion.
6 minute mark, jv and McCollum come off for tm3 and Morris can get interesting
6 minute mark, jv and McCollum come off for tm3 and Morris can get interesting
Posted on 4/13/23 at 11:58 am to DallasTiger45
quote:This is why positions are largely irrelevant.
Monte Morris isn’t a serious starting PG for a top 6 seed imo
Who is the PG for the Celtics, and are they a serious PG for a 2 seed? Same question for the Nuggets.
The game is just different now, and we just see other dudes who are bigs or not traditional PGs that control an offense and play the role of point guard.
Jokic on offense is just as much of a PG as any other position.
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