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re: A tangent to the abortion discussion…
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:11 am to oldhickory1812
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:11 am to oldhickory1812
Yes it was parody.
0
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:11 am to FooManChoo
quote:
There are all sorts of practical helps to get people back to work to get them to learn the value of work
Such a naive worldview. The issue is a cultural one. These people don't want to go back to work. They take pride in being government leeches and living on taxpayer dime.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:17 am to aTmTexas Dillo
Agreed. They have organized an entire party around Death. Abortion is the single core organizing principle around which their entire coalition is built. Except they surround it with female empowerment language that has women thinking that killing what grows inside of them is a Holy Act. Abortion is their sacrament. Turning women against their nature is their crowning achievement.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:22 am to oldhickory1812
quote:Uh.. technically? Sure. But in reality, you're talking about mostly uninformed people who don't/can't see the long-term picture and who make poor life choices.
They can still say NO!
This choice also isn't an unbiased choice. It's subsidizing sterilization and offering an incentive to do that. It's sort of the inverse of the government forcing employees to get the COVID vaccine and then saying they had a choice. Well sure, they could choose to get the vaccine or lose their job, but in the minds of many, it wasn't a real choice. Likewise, to those who are on welfare precisely because they need financial assistance, they may not think they have a choice to get sterilized when thinking about the financial incentive.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:22 am to PurpleSingularity
quote:
Would you support a mandatory sterilization program if the individual has a child, and requests government assistance/ welfare? An individual could have as many children as they want, but as soon as that person requests welfare, government assistance, etc. then they must submit to sterilization.
100% do not support. We had our first while both were still in college and utilized some of the government assistance programs while he was an infant. We then both graduated, I also went back later and got a masters degree and we also had 6 more children.
I have paid well over $2mm in federal income taxes in my career, and of the 6 “follow on” children who wouldn’t be here under your idea, 3 are adults. One just turned 18 but has had PT jobs in high school. Of the two that have been adult longer 1 is an engineer (aerospace) and makes close to $250k so his tax bill is pretty serious and the other is a special operator in the Army.
I would say the government’s “investment” with their social program has had a huge ROI and under your plan we would have produced one contributing member of society not 4 on the way to 7.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:27 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
But would you support a voluntary program?
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:29 am to PurpleSingularity
Govt benefits stop at one child. No "have another kid and get more money" bullshite. ie "food stamps" are so much per person per month. The mother and one kid. Add any more, it's on you. Govt provides birth control to all women via Medicaid.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:30 am to VADawg
quote:I don't disagree that the issue is cultural, at least at a high/generic level. And yet I don't think you deal with issues like this by encouraging sterilization.
Such a naive worldview. The issue is a cultural one. These people don't want to go back to work. They take pride in being government leeches and living on taxpayer dime.
There are tons of ways to address welfare reform. I don't think sterilization of our citizens is a good or necessary approach.
This post was edited on 11/1/24 at 8:43 am
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:31 am to oldhickory1812
quote:
But would you support a voluntary program?
Voluntary? People can go to their docs now and get tubes tied or snipped.
It’s in place.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:32 am to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
Voluntary? People can go to their docs now and get tubes tied or snipped.
It’s in place.
I am talking about getting some money for it.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:47 am to PurpleSingularity
The way you control welfare is by limiting purchases and limiting time. You have to make it uncomfortable. But we don't like discomfort in this country.
You don't need to get into sterilization. That's abhorrent outside of pedophiles.
You don't need to get into sterilization. That's abhorrent outside of pedophiles.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 8:59 am to oldhickory1812
Like the government paying them to do it? The government (taxpayers) likely already pay 100% of their medical if they are on welfare.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 12:28 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
Purple, I get what you are doing here. I'd like to see numbers for a sign up roster for those choosing voluntary sterilization at college campuses or certain music concerts.
They want the issue, not the solution.
They absolutely want the issue, not the solution. A problem that they can continuously virtue signal and project about. While voting against any kind of a measure that tries to fix the problem.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 12:31 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Its not about if it is doable. You could also think of drastic measures like taking away children and making them wards of the state
If the system made that worth it. Like humane living conditions, adequately feeding, clothing and educating them, without indoctrination, possibly.
As a former ward of the courts, I can say that it was dog shite 40 years ago, and has just gotten worse since.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 12:34 pm to PurpleSingularity
Let’s just end it with, No abortions just because it’s convenient. Base it solely on the absolute necessity of saving the mothers life if she chooses that. Or there is irrefutable evidence that the baby has major malformations. And that doesn’t mean if they are deaf, mute, blind etc.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 12:37 pm to PurpleSingularity
quote:um negative
Would you support a mandatory sterilization program if the individual has a child, and requests government assistance/ welfare? An individual could have as many children as they want, but as soon as that person requests welfare, government assistance, etc. then they must submit to sterilization.
Young people do stupid shite. I'm not okay with preventing them from ever having kids again.
Just max out welfare for the first child. Done
Just generally speaking, forced work for government assistance would dissolve the welfare industry in a year.
Pick up trash or paint the road stripes, clean graffiti or clean abandoned houses. People would be looking for a real job in a heartbeat
This post was edited on 11/1/24 at 12:45 pm
Posted on 11/1/24 at 12:41 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
Sterilization cannot be coercive (money) it just has to be flat out voluntary. Let a woman choose. Imagine the feeling of freedom if one knows they will never get accidentally pregnant. You go for it girl!
Intentional or not, the result would be empowering and encouraging the high body count feminism.
The same thing that makes women into very poor relationship and motherhood material. Due to lack of sense of consequences. And habits that they will just run off to another man, if they get upset with the one they're with.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 12:56 pm to Wolfwireless
quote:
Intentional or not, the result would be empowering and encouraging the high body count feminism.
The same thing that makes women into very poor relationship and motherhood material. Due to lack of sense of consequences. And habits that they will just run off to another man, if they get upset with the one they're with.
You know I don't believe what I wrote. Women are going down a whirlpool with all this abortion stuff. I was in church today. I can see some young people still like children.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 1:12 pm to aTmTexas Dillo
quote:
You know I don't believe what I wrote. Women are going down a whirlpool with all this abortion stuff. I was in church today. I can see some young people still like children.
yeah, that happens sometimes! I do it too. I mean, I can't blame anybody for wanting to be able to live it up, after they get out of school, and out on their own.
I know, I learned a lot of the consequences for my younger choices.
My 21 year old is now in the dating game. Maybe that's what makes me so critical.
But yeah. I see a lot of adults who still act like children too.
This post was edited on 11/1/24 at 1:14 pm
Posted on 11/1/24 at 2:12 pm to LRB1967
quote:
think sterilization for drug addicts is a good thing to consider. I have spent three decades helping children abused by addicted parents. The suffering and pain they experience is heartbreaking.
There are parts of this that I support too.
My nephew is a crack baby. He was and still is, a massive thing to deal with, around the family.
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