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re: Are MGTOW guys smart or just lazy?
Posted on 10/5/21 at 4:40 am to Sentrius
Posted on 10/5/21 at 4:40 am to Sentrius
The real price to pay will be when they die alone or worse; are left as a drooling lump of a human after a stroke or other late-life medical crises. The question “what did I do with my life?” will be tough to answer for a lot of folks.
0
Posted on 10/5/21 at 4:51 am to CatholicLSUDude
quote:
WTF is MGTOW?
Incels with self awareness
Posted on 10/5/21 at 5:06 am to Sentrius
quote:
Building a strong blood line with good descendants is the most masculine and alpha thing a man can do.
The strongest driving force in nature since the dawn of time.
Posted on 10/5/21 at 6:10 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
Basically they gave up on women because they don't want to deal with the drama.
" Hitting the bars every night, hooking up with chicks on tinder, partying and day drinking all weekend. "
So, sowing their wild oats then, huh?
Sounds like some think they're just F boys, out for a good time, no commitment.
Posted on 10/5/21 at 6:10 am to Sentrius
quote:
when it does work out and you not only marry a good to great woman but also raise a kick arse family
Building a strong blood line with good descendants is the most masculine and alpha thing a man can do.
But you don't have to be married to build a strong blood line. Just look at Nick Cannon and Donald Trump.
Marriage is a one sided contract used to enslave men financially and curb their darwinistic desires for more progeny.
I guarantee you Trump, Bezos and Bill all wish they had been mgtow from day 1.
You can have the kids without losing 50% of your net worth and without the alimony check going out every month reminding you what an idiot you were for not going mgtow, like John Schneider and Dennis Quaid.
The mgtow guys have got it figured out.
Posted on 10/5/21 at 6:13 am to burger bearcat
I was pretty much part of this group up until last year, finally found one that wasn't bat shite insane but had to go way outside of the city to do it. If all you old baws saw what young women have become these days you'd be in the same boat.
Posted on 10/5/21 at 6:34 am to burger bearcat
I am a married man ,but I can see why some men go this route. I have seen many of my friends in the Army who have gotten divorced and it has put them in some very bad positions in terms of money and retirement. Society has changed in terms of women are in the workplace and making money along with other factors that make precedent from the 50s and 60s heavily unequal in terms of ruling against men especially when it comes to child custody and support. I would say many of these men have been burned so bad that they just don't want to go through it again so they shut themselves off.
Posted on 10/5/21 at 6:36 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:Oh God. What a stupid a name.
Men Going Their Own Way
quote:Yeah, sure.
Basically they gave up on women because they don't want to deal with the drama.
This post was edited on 10/5/21 at 6:37 am
Posted on 10/5/21 at 6:37 am to burger bearcat
They’re pathetic losers
Posted on 10/5/21 at 7:13 am to Lightning
quote:
Truth. 35+ and you’re going to have to bring something to the table (usually $) to secure a prime younger woman.
And that’s what your relationship will be based on. She’ll take half your shite in a few years.
Posted on 10/5/21 at 7:17 am to burger bearcat
quote:
In their early to mid 30s just living life as if they are teenagers. Hitting the bars every night, hooking up with chicks on tinder, partying and day drinking all weekend. Watching sports and playing video games. Traveling whenever they want, and just living the life they want to live with no real goals or purpose, other than doing what they want and having fun.
Hay problema?
Posted on 10/5/21 at 7:19 am to burger bearcat
quote:
Hitting the bars every night, hooking up with chicks on tinder, partying and day drinking all weekend. Watching sports and playing video games. Traveling whenever they want, and just living the life they want to live with no real goals or purpose, other than doing what they want and having fun.
I mean this was me in my 20's. Then I finally grew up.
With that said I was still formally educating myself in my 20's.
This post was edited on 10/5/21 at 7:22 am
Posted on 10/5/21 at 7:22 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
Men Going Their Own Way.
Pew-wee “ There's a lotta things about me you don't know anything about, Dottie. Things you wouldn't understand. Things you couldn't understand. Things you shouldn't understand “.
Dottie: “I don't understand.”
Pee-wee: “ You don't wanna get mixed up with a guy like me. I'm a loner, Dottie. A rebel “
Posted on 10/5/21 at 7:22 am to burger bearcat
I think generally MGTOW understand there is a serious problem with the relationship/dating game and the societal perspective on what dating is/should be. Just like the Bernie bros see the right problem but have the worst solutions.
I don't think the behavior you described from those individuals is very meaningful and yes really nihilistic and hedonistic. It's a complete dead end.
Just like "Red pilled" guys they see dating as a fully materialistic endeavor. Sex and money are the penultimate achievements and the 2 variables at work in a relationship, and any indication of non-material/intrinsic value is just an illusion put forth by people just looking to fool men into expending their resources on an undeserving woman.
It's a mix of divorced guys, probably nerds that struggle with women, and guys that have been in the dating game awhile and dated a lot of trash women. I don't think many guys here would disagree women have become shite over the last few decades as many have decided fidelity, family, modesty, motherhood, and marriage are institutions/values of "oppression". While sleeping around with hundreds of men and dangling your arse around on social media for strangers to press a button for likes is "fulfillment".
Women are more obese than ever. More promiscuous than ever and promiscuity is celebrated now more than ever. More single moms than there have ever been since the creation of the republic, more single moms on government programs than there are ever been. But it's not all the fault of women, but it's ironic they talk about their importance to society while absolutely trashing one of the most powerful tools they have (sex and childbirth).
I don't think the behavior you described from those individuals is very meaningful and yes really nihilistic and hedonistic. It's a complete dead end.
Just like "Red pilled" guys they see dating as a fully materialistic endeavor. Sex and money are the penultimate achievements and the 2 variables at work in a relationship, and any indication of non-material/intrinsic value is just an illusion put forth by people just looking to fool men into expending their resources on an undeserving woman.
It's a mix of divorced guys, probably nerds that struggle with women, and guys that have been in the dating game awhile and dated a lot of trash women. I don't think many guys here would disagree women have become shite over the last few decades as many have decided fidelity, family, modesty, motherhood, and marriage are institutions/values of "oppression". While sleeping around with hundreds of men and dangling your arse around on social media for strangers to press a button for likes is "fulfillment".
Women are more obese than ever. More promiscuous than ever and promiscuity is celebrated now more than ever. More single moms than there have ever been since the creation of the republic, more single moms on government programs than there are ever been. But it's not all the fault of women, but it's ironic they talk about their importance to society while absolutely trashing one of the most powerful tools they have (sex and childbirth).
This post was edited on 10/5/21 at 7:29 am
Posted on 10/5/21 at 9:13 am to SouthEasternKaiju
quote:
" Hitting the bars every night, hooking up with chicks on tinder, partying and day drinking all weekend. "
So, sowing their wild oats then, huh?
Sounds like some think they're just F boys, out for a good time, no commitment.
Nah, these are dudes who think all women are evil and trying to take advantage of them.
Stupid, but different from your hit it and quit it types.
Posted on 10/5/21 at 9:25 am to teke184
quote:
Works until you can no longer run with the singles scene, at which point you are getting sloppy seconds at best when it comes to a spouse.
The whole point of MGTOW is that they're abandoning marriage. So it's not like they care about "sloppy seconds".
Ultimately, what they're doing is counter-productive for civilization, but I understand WHY they've chosen this path. The mating scene changed in horrific ways, and these guys have some points:
Over 70% of divorces are initiated by women
Men lose their shirts in divorce
Men rarely get custody of their children in divorce
Feminism encourages women to divorce their husbands and withhold children from them
So from their perspective... why get married at all?
Posted on 10/5/21 at 9:31 am to burger bearcat
I had not heard of this term but googled it. The "MGTOW" crowd hardly sound like men at all
Now, I will also note that what you describe some of your friends doing does not sound like the same thing I read about MGTOW, which seems to involve a near complete separation between men and women. What you describe is more of "confirmed bachelorhood" or perhaps "extended adolescence."
Now, I will also note that what you describe some of your friends doing does not sound like the same thing I read about MGTOW, which seems to involve a near complete separation between men and women. What you describe is more of "confirmed bachelorhood" or perhaps "extended adolescence."
Posted on 10/5/21 at 9:34 am to burger bearcat
There is a real emptiness of the philosophy that they try to mask as some sort of intelligence thing, at least the MGTOW content guys.
Posted on 10/5/21 at 9:42 am to StringedInstruments
quote:
The problem with MGTOW guys is they’re failing to self-actualize by avoiding establishing anything meaningful with their lives. That kind of hedonistic nihilism lacks true purpose.
Yeah, it's like goths without the makeup and leather.
Jordan Peterson and his philosophy about responsibility is a real good counter to them. I'll re-post this quote, which is probably the best stuff he ever did (from a uni lecture long before he was famous).
quote:
And so if your life isn’t everything it could be, you could ask yourself: well, what would happen if you just stopped wasting the opportunities that are in front of you? You’d be who knows how much more efficient; ten times more efficient, twenty times more efficient; that’s the Pareto distribution. You have no idea how efficient efficient people get. It’s completely… it’s off the charts. And if we all got our act together collectively and stopped making things worse – because that’s another thing people do all the time: not only do they not do what they should to make things better, they actively attempt to make things worse, because they’re spiteful or resentful or arrogant or deceitful or homicidal or genocidal or all of those things bundled together in an absolutely pathological package – if people stopped really really trying just to make things worse, we have no idea how much better they would get just because of that.
So there’s this weird dynamic that’s part of the existential system of ideas between human vulnerability, social judgement, both of which are major causes of suffering, and the failure of individuals to adopt the responsibility that they know they should adopt. And that’s the thing that’s interesting too, is that… another thing I’ve often asked my undergraduate classes is, you know, there’s this idea that people have – that people have a conscience. And you know what the conscience is: it’s this feeling or voice you have in your head, just before you do something that you know is stupid, telling you that probably you shouldn’t do that stupid thing. You don’t have to listen to it, strangely enough. But you go ahead and do it anyways, and then, of course, exactly what the conscience told you was going to happen, inevitably happens, so that you feel even stupider about it, than you would if it happened by accident, because you know: I knew this was going to happen, I got a warning it was going to happen and I went and did it anyways. And the funny thing, too, is that that conscience operates within people, and we really don’t understand what the hell that is.
So, you might say: well, what would happen if you abided by your conscience for five years or for ten years, what sort of position might you be in? What sort of family might you have? What sort of relationship might you be able to forge? And you can be bloody sure that a relationship that’s forged on the basis of who you actually are is going to be a lot stronger and more welcome than one that’s forged on the basis of who you aren’t.
Now, of course, that means that the person you’re with has to deal with the full force of you in all your ability and catastrophe, and that’s a very very difficult thing to negotiate. But if you do negotiate it, well, at least you have something, you have somewhere solid to stand and you have somewhere to live, you have a real life. And it’s a great basis upon which to bring children into the world, for example. Because you can have an actual relationship with them instead of torturing them half to death, which is what happens in a tremendous, a tremendously large minority of cases.
Well, it’s more than that, too, because – and this is what I’ll close with, and this is why I wanted to introduce Solzhenitsyn’s writings to you – you see, because it isn’t merely that your fate depends on whether or not you get your act together and to what degree you decide that you’re going to live out your own genuine being; it isn’t only your fate; it’s the fate of everyone that you’re networked with. And so, you know, you think: well, there’s nine billion, seven billion people in the world, we’re going to be peak at about nine billion by the way, and then it’ll decline rapidly, but seven billion people in the world and who are you? You’re just one little dust mote among that seven billion and so it really doesn’t matter what you do or don’t do, but that’s simply not the case. It’s the wrong model, because you’re at the center of a network. You’re a node in a network. Of course, that’s even more true now that we have social media. You’ll know a thousand people, at least, over the course of your life, and they’ll know a thousand people each, and that puts you one person away from a million, and two persons away from a billion! And that’s how you’re connected and the things you do – they’re like dropping a stone in a pond – the ripples move outward and they affect things in ways that you can’t fully comprehend. And it means that the things that you do and that you don’t do are far more important than you think!
And so if you act that way, of course, the terror of realizing that is that it actually starts to matter what you do. And you might say: well, that’s better than living a meaningless existence; it’s better for it to matter. But, I mean, if you really ask yourself would you be so sure, if you had the choice: I can live with no responsibility whatsoever, the price I pay is that nothing matters; or: I can reverse it, and everything matters, but I have to take the responsibility that’s associated with that. It’s not so obvious to me that people would take the meaningful path. Now, when you say: well, nihilists suffer dreadfully because there’s no meaning in their life and they still suffer; yeah, but the advantage is they have no responsibility. So that’s the payoff, and I actually think that’s the motivation. Saying: well, I can’t help being nihilistic, all my belief systems have collapsed; it’s like: yeah, maybe, maybe you’ve just allowed them to collapse because it’s a hell of a lot easier than acting them out. And the price you pay is some meaningless suffering, but you can always whine about that and people will feel sorry for you, and you have the option of taking the pathway of the martyr, so that’s a pretty good deal, all things considered. Especially when the alternative is to bear your burden properly and to live forthrightly in the world.
Well, what Solzhenitsyn figured out – and so many people in the 20th century, it’s not just him, even though he’s the best example – is that if you live a pathological life you pathologize your society. And if enough people do that, then it’s hell. Really. Really. And you can read the Gulag Archipelago if you have the fortitude to do that, and you’ll see exactly what hell is like. And then you can decide if that’s a place you’d like to visit. Or, even more importantly, if it’s a place you’d like to visit and take all your family and friends. Because that’s what happened in the 20th century.
Posted on 10/5/21 at 9:44 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
Basically they gave up on women because they don't want to deal with the drama.
It's more like they gave up on serious relationships with women b/c of the drama and financial issues.
I'm sure a lot of incels are posing as MGTOW, though.
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