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Started By
Message
re: I think it's time for America to cut social security altogether (serious)
Posted on 8/13/24 at 5:26 am to John Madden SuperFan
Posted on 8/13/24 at 5:26 am to John Madden SuperFan
quote:What a foolish, foolish take. "The Boomer Generation"? Really?
The problem is neither party wants to upset the boomer generation.
First off, SS is a government rip off. PERIOD!
Let's get that straight.
If we could wind SS down, and convert it to a private program, we'd be much better off for the effort.
But that won't happen.
Why?
Because the government is badly in debt. So government needs to force YOU to lend IT money at a ridiculously low ROI through SS, just as it forced silents, boomers, and X'ers to do before you.
SS was/is a ripoff for those generations, just as it is for you.
Blaming them instead of the government is exactly what big government socialists want. Boomers have a ton of money ready to privately pass on to succeeding gens. Greedy government wants its greasy mitts on that stash. To accomplish that, a little projection, and a little deceptive transference, is required.
Translation?
Avaricious political socialists must get morons in society to blame others "greed" for their own government-driven woes. Hence, SS ""debt"" is the labeled the fault of "Greedy Boomers." Believe that, and perhaps Uncle Sam can also convince you that he'd be better off handling the upcoming greatest wealth transfer in history, some $70+ trillion, instead of Boomers passing it on to millennials, zoomers and so forth. That is the game afoot.
Meanwhile, if ROI on SS even approached standard conservative portfolio returns, SS would be in surplus forever. Think about that.
So what determines SS ROI?
Well ... its basically an assigned number.
So who assigns SS ROI?
Not you.
Not me.
Not ""Boomers""
Our Government assigns SS ROI.
Our government snatches 12% of your employment income. Retains it as a forced loan for decades. Then (maybe, if you live long enough) government returns your money at a pittance of what it would have cost you to borrow the same sum over the same timeframe..... and, at the same time, gets you to blame those boomers getting ripped off by that pittance return on "investment." It's quite a trick.
---
Applicable to the "it's Boomers' fault" crowd is an old saying:
"If you've been playing poker for awhile and you still don't know who the patsy is, you're the patsy."
2
Posted on 8/13/24 at 5:39 am to NC_Tigah
They want their/our money now. And they will have no qualms taking it out of unrealized capital gains on our portfolios after means testing us out of our SS benefit. It's their "fair share".
As an experiment, I have put aside and invested all my SS money in the stock market. I don't know if I will ever use it. I just want to see how large that sum will grow. I'll report back to all the younguns in a few years. They may want to learn about the benefit of setting aside money and compounding growth.
As an experiment, I have put aside and invested all my SS money in the stock market. I don't know if I will ever use it. I just want to see how large that sum will grow. I'll report back to all the younguns in a few years. They may want to learn about the benefit of setting aside money and compounding growth.
Posted on 8/13/24 at 5:45 am to UncleLester
quote:
How about we stop letting people collect from it that never contributed?
This plus a combo of opting out for individuals 35 & under is a start
Posted on 8/13/24 at 5:55 am to ItNeverRains
They just need to bump the age you can start drawing out of it to 68/69 and be done with it. You will create a societal crap show if you straight up cut it
Posted on 8/13/24 at 5:55 am to John Madden SuperFan
quote:
I think it's time for America to cut social security altogether (serious)
I'm fine with that, just cut a lump sum check to everyone who has paid into social security, you know return the money the government took from taxpayers under the guise of returning that money to them in their retirement years. The government shouldn't get to keep the money, that would be stealing. If you haven't paid into SS then you do not get a check. Simple, then let each individual be responsible for their own retirement savings going forward.
It's very easy to know who gets what in return because if you look in your SS account it tells you exactly how much you've paid into SS since beginning to work.
BTW, I don't really think you understand how screwed the younger generations will be if this ever happens. Which it wont, because government is addicted to taking and spending taxpayer money.
This post was edited on 8/13/24 at 5:58 am
Posted on 8/13/24 at 6:30 am to FLTech
quote:
Stop spending hundreds of billions of dollars on stupid dumb shite that does absolutely nothing for American people
That's the Democrats' M.O. (method of operation for you Democrats)
Posted on 8/13/24 at 6:41 am to John Madden SuperFan
quote:
Why are we procrastinating about a problem that's been plaguing us since 1989?
Since 1989??? Are you insane? It's been a wreck since its inception. Its coffers are filled with IOU's that will never be paid back and recipient, who have involuntarily funded it throughout their whole working lives, receive pennies on the dollar compared to what they would have had in a retirement account to which they could have contributed the entire amount.
It is a social program (read "socialist") started by a president who introduced a lot of socialist ideas into our country and wanted even more of them. It is nothing more than free money for our government's elected officials and unelected bureaucrats to pilfer and then leave the next several generations on the hook for paying it back.
I agree that it should be discontinued, but it should be done properly. Every penny that anyone has paid into SS should be returned to them, then the books zeroed out and closed. Of course we know there's not enough money in the whole of the rest of our government to pay back what they have pilfered and outright stolen from our working citizens under the false pretense of providing some financial security in their old age.
Posted on 8/13/24 at 6:51 am to LSUwag
quote:For a factual perspective, the max possible SS contribution for today's 65y/o's over a 43yr career is around $230K. Not very much, right? Only $230K ... and that is the most anyone would have contributed.
Im 58 and the first year of Gen X. I’ve paid in an absolute shitload of money in to SS. It would be millions if it was in an index fund all these years. I have to get my SS as part of my retirement.
Avg ROI in the stock market during that 43yr period was 12%.
If that 65y/o's $230K had been invested at just 10% per yr (i.e., a ~17% annual underperformance on market returns), his portfolio holdings for the account would exceed $3M. (i can post the numbers, but $3M+ is accurate)
Let's assume the 65y/o lives 20 more yrs. Max SS monthly payout is about $3850/m or $46.2K/yr. So after 20yrs, at end of life, he would have collected $925K in payments for SS. $925K!!! That's a lot of money, right?
Social security advocates would say, "See? Told ya! That "boomer" only put $230 in, and he'll get $925 out !!!" Those damn "boomers" are killing us!
----
Now let's return to the 65y/o's $230K invested at 10%/yr, $3M+ in total.
At a continued 10% ROI, $3M returns $300K/yr .... not $46.2K. The difference being $253.8K/yr or >$5M over 20 years. So in one instance the residual portfolio at death is zero. In the other, it exceeds $8,000,000.00 (The original .
$8,000,000.00
That, my friends, is the cost of SS. Now granted, neither the $46.2K nor the $300K account for tax loss, nor does the calculation account for continued compounded interest on the $253.8K/yr, nonetheless it's illustrative IMO.
This post was edited on 8/13/24 at 6:53 am
Posted on 8/13/24 at 6:53 am to NC_Tigah
Maddening
Posted on 8/13/24 at 6:53 am to NC_Tigah
quote:
First off, SS is a government rip off. PERIOD!
I mean he's trying to end that ripoff.
quote:
Blaming them instead of the government is exactly what big government socialists want.
They've been the generation in power supporting the stuff you're posting about (assuming it's true) for decades now.
quote:
So what determines SS ROI?
Well ... its basically an assigned number.
So who assigns SS ROI?
Not you.
Not me.
Not ""Boomers""
Our Government assigns SS ROI.
Again, all reasons to wind down the program.
It was a bad program. Too many older generations supported it for too long, and used dishonest sales techniques (that we see in this thread are very effective) to rally more support. These are all arguments why we need to wind down the program, and they don't even involve how SS is one of the few programs we can target to work on our deficit/debt issue.
quote:
Our government snatches 12% of your employment income. Retains it as a forced loan for decades. Then (maybe, if you live long enough) government returns your money at a pittance of what it would have cost you to borrow the same sum over the same timeframe..... and, at the same time, gets you to blame those boomers getting ripped off by that pittance return on "investment." It's quite a trick.
Boomers had decades to work on a fix, before their generation caused a massive threat to the entire program. They failed at doing this.
Now it's younger Gen X and Millennials who have the burden of reforming the (as you described) terrible program that Boomers refused to fix themselves.
Posted on 8/13/24 at 6:57 am to Tuscaloosa
quote:
Idk what the solution is, but I’d at least like the ability to opt out.
This is the start I think. Give people the option for a one time check now.
Problem is that it will only explode the welfare programs because people can't handle their own lives
Posted on 8/13/24 at 6:59 am to John Madden SuperFan
quote:
The problem is neither party wants to upset the boomer generation.
SS reform, yes.
Elimination of SS, no.
You can reform SS to provide for those that are truly eligible for the program …. those that actually paid into the plan, not those that did not. And that can be done without upsetting the boomer generation.
This post was edited on 8/13/24 at 7:00 am
Posted on 8/13/24 at 7:01 am to wutangfinancial
quote:
We’re currently paying rich people to not work.
No.
Rich people are getting screwed the worst because SS payments are taxed as ordinary income. I will have paid into that system for 50 years. Then, when I start collecting, it will be taxed at the highest bracket, so about 47% state and federal taxes.
The ordinary middle class worker retires, then starts receiving $2,000 per month and pays 0 taxes on it. I will get about $3,000 per month, because I paid in a lot more, but the government will take half, leaving me $1500 per month - that’s less than what the average worker will get, even though I paid in a whole lot more.
Posted on 8/13/24 at 7:02 am to John Madden SuperFan
Let's try to count the NPC responses...
Correct description of the problem (which the above quotes further)
quote:
I’m fine with it if I get the 200,000 dollars that I’ve paid in over the last 30 years!
quote:
Sure just give me all I’ve paid into it first
quote:
Give me back what I’ve paid into it over the past 40 years - nothing more nothing less. I won’t even ask for interest.
quote:
Pay me back what I’ve paid in to it tomorrow, I’m in.
quote:
Well, they better pay me the money I put into it for the last 47 years…
quote:
I would need my contributions for the last 50+ years returned .... and I'd be good with that.
quote:
Will they give me my money back?
Correct description of the problem (which the above quotes further)
quote:
No one is willing to accept that all that they paid in has been wasted already, they’d rather kick the can down the road and make the next generation continue the scheme.
Posted on 8/13/24 at 7:03 am to John Madden SuperFan
Shut it down. Pay me off. No more deductions.
Posted on 8/13/24 at 7:03 am to LSUwag
quote:
Im 58 and the first year of Gen X. I’ve paid in an absolute shitload of money in to SS.
You paid taxes like all the other taxes, that funding spending programs for others. You weren't paying into some personal account.
You were sold a lie and believed it, for some reason.
Posted on 8/13/24 at 7:03 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
has been wasted already by congress.
Posted on 8/13/24 at 7:04 am to SlowFlowPro
You weren't paying into some personal account.
Look at Sherlock here.
Look at Sherlock here.
Posted on 8/13/24 at 7:05 am to HailToTheChiz
quote:
This is the start I think. Give people the option for a one time check now.
Yeah I proposed on here a while back we could divide up what is left in the trust in tranches based on money put in by the individual.
Similar to how a class action works.
The larger problem is we need a chunk of the taxes to steer towards non-SS deficit spending, so they're not fully going away.
Posted on 8/13/24 at 7:05 am to themunch
quote:
You weren't paying into some personal account.
Look at Sherlock here.
Don't look at me. You should be pointing this out to all the people who think they did anything more than pay taxes into a redistribution program in the past.
The first step in fixing SS is removing the personalization that people use to associate the money they paid with some benefit they will receive.
This post was edited on 8/13/24 at 7:06 am
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