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I know nothing about soccer. League team vs. national team.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 2:22 pm
Posted on 12/18/22 at 2:22 pm
This question is all about team chemistry. Could the best EPL, South American, etc. league team win the World Cup? Do the National teams play together enough over four years to develop team chemistry at that level. Is the talent difference between the National team and the league team so great chemistry doesn’t matter.
3
Posted on 12/18/22 at 2:31 pm to BOSCEAUX
quote:
Could the best EPL, South American, etc. league team win the World Cup?
Yes Real Madrid, Barca, and a few EPL teams could trash national teams not named Argentina, France, Germany (they are currently down), England, Brazil, Spain.
That doesn't undermine the World Cup tho.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 2:46 pm to Bottom9
Not trying to undermine the Cup. Just wondering for example if a team like Man U is the best team in the EPL why wouldn’t England just send them to the World Cup. Is it because they have international players on the club. Like I said I know next to nothing about soccer. Are there any really good league teams that are comprised only of residents of the country? What exactly are the rules to be allowed to play on a country’s National team?
Posted on 12/18/22 at 2:57 pm to BOSCEAUX
Most those teams have quite a few foreigners.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 3:14 pm to BOSCEAUX
quote:
What exactly are the rules to be allowed to play on a country’s National team?
There’s lots of different ways to get eligible for a national team, but most common are
1) Born there
2) Citizen there by 18 or early 20s
3) Some direct bloodline family member is a citizen
You have to pick a national team pretty early in your career. Messi, for example, couldn’t have just flipped to Spain one day because he played for Barcelona. Once you play a certain number of games for a nation’s senior team, you are tied to that nation.
To get on a club team in a country, you basically just need a work permit and an interested team.
Manchester United’s most recent starting 11 only had 2 English national team players for example. The rest play for other national teams.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 3:29 pm to BOSCEAUX
No high end league team is purely comprised of 1 nationality.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 3:49 pm to MetArl15
Bilbao says watch your mouth
Posted on 12/18/22 at 5:46 pm to TomRollTideRitter
quote:
There’s lots of different ways to get eligible for a national team, but most common are 1) Born there 2) Citizen there by 18 or early 20s 3) Some direct bloodline family member is a citizen You have to pick a national team pretty early in your career. Messi, for example, couldn’t have just flipped to Spain one day because he played for Barcelona. Once you play a certain number of games for a nation’s senior team, you are tied to that nation. To get on a club team in a country, you basically just need a work permit and an interested team. Manchester United’s most recent starting 11 only had 2 English national team players for example. The rest play for other national teams.
Thanks. That answered all my questions.
Posted on 12/18/22 at 5:52 pm to BOSCEAUX
quote:
I know nothing about soccer
quote:
a team like Man U is the best team in the EPL
Posted on 12/18/22 at 9:10 pm to BOSCEAUX
At this point, the best club teams would win the World Cup if they entered. In fact, I think the best 6-8 club teams would all be favorites (let’s say for the sake of this exercise Messi and his identical clone would be on the field for each of Argentina and Paris St-Germain, if they played one another).
The only advantage the top national teams have would be camaraderie and buying in on a greater goal. They would also have players more willing to defer to the stars, experienced vets, etc.
There are cases where talented national teams had horrible chemistry, massive egos, no unity, etc (looking at you, 2010 France) but those teams don’t get far despite looking good on paper.
If you look at Barcelona in the early-to-mid-2010s, they had the core of the Spanish national team minus the excellent goalkeeper, but you would add Messi, Samuel Eto’o, etc. to that mix.
The only advantage the top national teams have would be camaraderie and buying in on a greater goal. They would also have players more willing to defer to the stars, experienced vets, etc.
There are cases where talented national teams had horrible chemistry, massive egos, no unity, etc (looking at you, 2010 France) but those teams don’t get far despite looking good on paper.
If you look at Barcelona in the early-to-mid-2010s, they had the core of the Spanish national team minus the excellent goalkeeper, but you would add Messi, Samuel Eto’o, etc. to that mix.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 6:14 am to Bottom9
quote:
Yes Real Madrid, Barca, and a few EPL teams could trash national teams not named Argentina, France, Germany (they are currently down), England, Brazil, Spain. That doesn't undermine the World Cup tho.
So let’s take PSG.
Would Messi play for psg or Argentina? Would mbappe be on France or psg?
Would Real Madrid be playing Croatia without modric?
Problem I see is the best players on the best teams are all on the best international teams.
It’s not guaranteed the club teams would win.
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 6:16 am
Posted on 12/19/22 at 6:45 am to dgnx6
Well yeah if you deplete club sides with their best players they probably won’t beat full-strength international sides. Shocking
Full-strength club sides could be beaten by good international sides, but they’d win the lion’s share
Full-strength club sides could be beaten by good international sides, but they’d win the lion’s share
This post was edited on 12/19/22 at 6:52 am
Posted on 12/19/22 at 7:38 am to dgnx6
quote:
Would Messi play for psg or Argentina? Would mbappe be on France or psg?
Would Real Madrid be playing Croatia without modric?
I think the hypothetical is that the player would play for both, but still most of your big time clubs have the depth to just plug another player in for one game. They do it all the time.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 9:12 am to RemouladeSawce
Best XI+3 on Paper: It’s the Top 8-12 National Teams, then the best Club Teams, then a mixture of both. You cannot underestimate the fact that National teams are grabbing the Best 11 players out of a pool of several thousand, while 20-30 teams struggle to scrape together a handful of that same talent level of players and have a starting 11 half full of people who did not make their team.
In current competition: Club teams spend 70-80% of the year playing under the same coach in the same formation and ironing out all the kinks with practice, while the National team has to try and gel a unit together that hardly know each other.
In current competition: Club teams spend 70-80% of the year playing under the same coach in the same formation and ironing out all the kinks with practice, while the National team has to try and gel a unit together that hardly know each other.
Posted on 12/19/22 at 12:08 pm to GoldenGuy
quote:
Best XI+3 on Paper: It’s the Top 8-12 National Teams, then the best Club Teams
So you think the USA is basically on par with Man City, Real Madrid, Bayern, PSG etc...
Posted on 12/20/22 at 7:31 am to GoldenGuy
quote:You meant to type this backwards, right?
Best XI+3 on Paper: It’s the Top 8-12 National Teams, then the best Club Teams
quote:This makes absolutely no sense, and only partially makes sense if you are confused and think domestic leagues are comprised exclusively of domestic players.
You cannot underestimate the fact that National teams are grabbing the Best 11 players out of a pool of several thousand, while 20-30 teams struggle to scrape together a handful of that same talent level of players and have a starting 11 half full of people who did not make their team.
This post was edited on 12/20/22 at 7:34 am
Posted on 12/23/22 at 9:04 pm to BOSCEAUX
quote:
This question is all about team chemistry. Could the best EPL, South American, etc. league team win the World Cup?
Eeeh, it depends. Obviously i follow serie a, but when italy won in 2006 every single player was from serie a, which has a distinct style of play, and a decent amount of those players won the u21 euros a few years earlier. I think the chemistry was easier for them, than say, 2022 france who play all over the world. If you could clone players and put up 2022 man city against 2022 argentina, city probably wins 9 out of 10 because they spend so much time together as a team.
Posted on 12/24/22 at 10:17 am to RandySavage
quote:
So you think the USA is basically on par with Man City, Real Madrid, Bayern, PSG etc...
USA would get arse raped by all of those teams. USA vs. Man City would actually be funny to watch. The real competition is Champions League. The best against the best.
Posted on 12/24/22 at 12:32 pm to rebelrouser
Club teams > national teams.
Could national teams occasionally beat a top club team? Of course. But, we are talking probabilities where top club teams are beating top national teams in the vast majority of cases.
Could national teams occasionally beat a top club team? Of course. But, we are talking probabilities where top club teams are beating top national teams in the vast majority of cases.
Posted on 12/24/22 at 3:41 pm to GoldenGuy
quote:
It’s the Top 8-12 National Teams, then the best Club Teams
You idiot.
Belgium is #4 in the world and they wouldn't even be top 6 in EPL in terms of best XI.
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