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Message
re: Sam Burns needs to fire his caddy.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 9:53 am to makersmark1
Posted on 8/27/24 at 9:53 am to makersmark1
I can hit my 2 iron around 200-210 when I hit it in the sweet spot and my swing speed is around 80-85. I'm not into delving into SG, but I would be curious to know his SBurns stroke gained driving. Seems like every time I tune into the PGA to watch Sam, and I'm a big fan, he hits it left or right and not just in the secondary rough gosh damn in the trees or into penalty areas. He's 38 in driving, number two in birdies behind SS and 11 in putting but way down in SG on approach shots at number 87. That should tell you he is errant off the tee. Down vote away.
This post was edited on 8/27/24 at 9:54 am
0
Posted on 8/27/24 at 10:02 am to Mr. Blutarski
quote:Nope, the lowest 4-man scramble I have ever played was -19 53. Only because we had a senior who hit a decent driver and holed out a 65 yard shot on a par 4. I'm 67 and play the one ups (which is stupid on my part) but can't bring myself to move up. I have never been long off the tee and relied on my iron play and scrambling ability around the green and a decent putter. Like the poster said earlier, even par on par 5's is horrendous on the tour. And it was at high altitude to boot.
50 in a 4 man scramble and can't break 90
Posted on 8/27/24 at 10:32 am to makersmark1
quote:
I suck and I bet my 3 wood is no more reliable than my driver.
You're 3 wood is almost certainly less reliable than your driver. It's a different story for a pro. If you're good enough not to be mis hitting/hitting off center, then a 3 wood is going to be a more controllable club. And pros hit it long enough that they aren't losing more distance so a 3 wood can be a smart play for them more often than you're suggesting. I'm not saying that's the case for high handicappers, a driver is typically the better option simply because it's more forgiving.
On my home course I hit 3 wood off the tee 5 times a round. I can draw my 3 wood whereas I can't draw my driver. Plus I hit my 3 wood about 280 off the tee so the distance isn't an issue. Just depends on the course and the hole but I love 3 wood off the tee.
Posted on 8/27/24 at 11:55 am to iwyLSUiwy
It good to see some different point of views.
At the end of the day, each player must decide what is best for him over the course of a season.
Golf is hard. Finding a good tee shot on each hole is important. Having a good short game is crucial.
Total potential of a golfer is ultimately related most to distance off the tee according to large data sets.
The good news is some of you have real ability and must think about hazards close to the dispersion that I don’t even have to consider.
At the end of the day, each player must decide what is best for him over the course of a season.
Golf is hard. Finding a good tee shot on each hole is important. Having a good short game is crucial.
Total potential of a golfer is ultimately related most to distance off the tee according to large data sets.
The good news is some of you have real ability and must think about hazards close to the dispersion that I don’t even have to consider.
Posted on 8/29/24 at 4:27 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
Plus I hit my 3 wood about 280 off the tee so the distance isn't an issue
I should quit playing.
I’m not long off the tee.
I did manage to hit a 349 yard cart path assisted gem and took advantage by hitting a great wedge to 8 ft and made the eagle put!
Just need to be more accurate so I can hit the cement path properly.
Posted on 8/30/24 at 6:29 pm to Dawgsontop34
quote:
Stats prove this isn’t remotely true anymore.
Can you show the stats please. I’d like to see them.
Posted on 8/30/24 at 6:51 pm to makersmark1
quote:Sounds like one I hit at Opelika. I still had a 3 wood after 2 hops on the path.
I did manage to hit a 349 yard cart path assisted gem and took advantage by hitting a great wedge to 8 ft and made the eagle put!
Long fisking hole
Posted on 9/3/24 at 12:52 pm to makersmark1
quote:
I should quit playing.
quote:
Golf is hard. Finding a good tee shot on each hole is important. Having a good short game is crucial.
Total potential of a golfer is ultimately related most to distance off the tee according to large data sets.
Don't know where those stats are from but I can tell you I don't agree with them.
Last year Brian Harmon won the Open. I hit the ball as far as Brian Harmon. Not as many fairways as he does but yesterday I played with the same ball for 18 holes and my drives are almost always in the 290-315 range depending on if I hit it solid or not. So pretty good off the tee imo. There are a few guys I play with that hit it longer than I do, so in turn hit it farther than Brian Harmon and a number of tour players. I know that for sure.
Last year when Brian Harmon won the Open he did not miss a putt inside 10 feet for the entire tournament. On British Open greens. One thing I know that me or anyone I know that hits it farther than me and is better than me, is that we will never go four rounds in a row without missing a putt from 10 ft and in. Odds are more likely that we would go four rounds without making a putt longer than 10 feet.
I don't know if total potential can be narrowed down to one thing (course management is way up there), but I do know that great golfers separate themselves from good golfers much more on the putting green than they do off the tee.
Posted on 9/3/24 at 12:59 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
I don't know if total potential can be narrowed down to one thing (course management is way up there), but I do know that great golfers separate themselves from good golfers much more on the putting green than they do off the tee.
That is because putting is viewed as a fluky stat. Putting is not nearly as sustainable as driving, approach, or short game. You can get hot with the putter, and it can really pay off for a tournament or two, but you rarely see it last too long.
Harmon is a great example. He has had a good career, but nothing very special. His putter got super hot at the perfect time to get him the Open. The sustained excellence is from guys that are better from tee to green.
So, yes, putting is often the differentiator in a small sample size. Usually, the guy that wins the tournament is the guy that got hot with the putter. However, it's not something that can be relied on over time like tee shots and approach.
This post was edited on 9/3/24 at 1:03 pm
Posted on 9/3/24 at 2:19 pm to VernonPLSUfan
I know it's not, but if the FedEx Cup Playoffs were a 3 tournament aggregate, Sam Burns would have won the whole thing.
Posted on 9/3/24 at 2:39 pm to iwyLSUiwy
quote:
but I do know that great golfers separate themselves from good golfers much more on the putting green than they do off the tee.
I think they separate themselves most by their proximity to the pin on approach shots into the green and on wedges around the green when they miss the green. A scratch golfer has an average distance from the hole of ~35 ft. The Tour average is around 20 ft. That significantly increases their chances of scoring.
Just look at SG putting on Tour this year. Not a lot of star power in the top 10 in that category. Now look at SG tee to green on Tour. It's basically the best players on Tour. There's just a lot more randomness in putting.
Pros also have a far greater ability to avoid catastrophe holes than amateur golfers do
This post was edited on 9/3/24 at 2:47 pm
Posted on 9/3/24 at 3:28 pm to lsufball19
quote:
Pros also have a far greater ability to avoid catastrophe holes than amateur golfers do
It's more about the miss at that level. Build a swing that eliminates one side and don't short side yourself. You have a pretty good chance.
Posted on 9/3/24 at 5:17 pm to VernonPLSUfan
quote:Missed seeing this earlier.
Nope, the lowest 4-man scramble I have ever played was -19 53.
In a 4-man scramble i played with 3 other plus handicaps we shot 22 under and lost.
The team we lost to had a guy who hit it 350 routinely with a persimmon head driver. If he was on line (I played with him a lot, there was no guarantee he would be) anything short of 380 was a drivable par 4. They shot 49, which we would have matched but couldn’t hit a 15 foot putt on the last hole.
That guy could shoot 65, 95 or anything between depending on how many he hit OB.
Posted on 9/3/24 at 5:37 pm to iwyLSUiwy
LINK
This is a study of 2020 stats.
I’m not saying putting is not important, but the best players in the world are all so good inside 4 ft that the separation for them occurs further from the hole.
I always thought the short game made these guys great. They have great short games, but there is a reason that Rory has won more than Kevin Kisner.
This is a study of 2020 stats.
I’m not saying putting is not important, but the best players in the world are all so good inside 4 ft that the separation for them occurs further from the hole.
I always thought the short game made these guys great. They have great short games, but there is a reason that Rory has won more than Kevin Kisner.
Posted on 9/6/24 at 12:59 pm to makersmark1
I was reading the Normal Sport news letter, and this stat for the various strokes gained areas was another indication of the impact of putting compared to the other areas.
quote:
3. I did my annual “putting doesn’t matter over a long arc” research earlier this week. Here are the aggregate money numbers for the top 10 in strokes gained for each category. This includes FedEx and Comcast Business money (quite a sentence there).
SG driving: $118M
SG approach: $131M
SG around the green: $64M
SG tee to green: $172M
SG putting: $49M
Xander absolutely carried the putters, too. He was 10th in putting, which means we were a couple of Thomas Detry made 15 footers from that category looking more like $22 million and not $49 million.
Poor Keith Mitchell was the only top 10 player from tee to green who didn’t make at least $4M. He “only” made $1.8M. It’s honestly kinda tough to look at.
quote:
The three best players from tee to green this year made like $110 million. As always: Drive for show, flush long irons for dough. Putt if you want to win. Basically just be Hideki.
This post was edited on 9/6/24 at 1:00 pm
Posted on 9/6/24 at 2:58 pm to DestrehanTiger
Yea I mean I wasn't really talking about what is separating the best pros from each other, I was talking about separating a good golfer from a great golfer or a good golfer from a pro. There are plenty of good golfers that are great off the tee and bomb the ball, but there are very few that are great putters. Or anything close to how good the pros are.
The strokes gained/proximity to the hole with iron shots stat that was posted was pretty interesting too though.
The strokes gained/proximity to the hole with iron shots stat that was posted was pretty interesting too though.
Posted on 9/6/24 at 6:36 pm to iwyLSUiwy
The numbers work at all levels. The Mark Broadie book Every Shot Counts goes into detail on that. The biggest separator from each level to the next is approach play.
The closest stats between pros and Joes is putting. Putting is very difficult, and when you get a certain distance from the hole, there's not as big of a gap between the best and the normal folks as there is in other stats.
The closest stats between pros and Joes is putting. Putting is very difficult, and when you get a certain distance from the hole, there's not as big of a gap between the best and the normal folks as there is in other stats.
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