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Started By
Message
HP and the PoA, am I dense?
Posted on 10/30/24 at 11:41 pm
Posted on 10/30/24 at 11:41 pm
I was never a book reader.
But Sirius was a prominent member of the Order of the Phoenix, why was every single former member acting like he was after Harry when they knew he was a good guy.
Mr Weasley, Remus, Dumbledore, McGonagall, etc all tell Harry to watch out and he’s coming for him.
Was it all long con cover up to reveal Wormtail? Why didn’t they just say Sirius was wrongly accused, he’s not a murderer etc. I don’t get it.
Call me an idiot who just needs some chocolate to feel better.
But Sirius was a prominent member of the Order of the Phoenix, why was every single former member acting like he was after Harry when they knew he was a good guy.
Mr Weasley, Remus, Dumbledore, McGonagall, etc all tell Harry to watch out and he’s coming for him.
Was it all long con cover up to reveal Wormtail? Why didn’t they just say Sirius was wrongly accused, he’s not a murderer etc. I don’t get it.
Call me an idiot who just needs some chocolate to feel better.
5
Posted on 10/30/24 at 11:55 pm to Frac the world
It's been a while but maybe they weren't sure what kind of mental state Sirius was in after being locked in azkaban so long with the dementors.
They knew he'd be coming for Harry because of his parents
They knew he'd be coming for Harry because of his parents
Posted on 10/31/24 at 12:20 am to Frac the world
I think the biggest plot hole is that all the Death Eaters knew that Pettigrew was the one who sent Voldemort to the Potters house.
So therefore Snape would know...
yet A: he didn't tell Dumbledore and somehow still didn't believe Sirius Black so Snape is an idiot or was really playing both sides
B: He told Dumbledore but Dumbledore didn't trust Sirius' mental state and he wanted the Dursley's to raise Harry to keep him safer
C: JK didn't think it trough
So therefore Snape would know...
yet A: he didn't tell Dumbledore and somehow still didn't believe Sirius Black so Snape is an idiot or was really playing both sides
B: He told Dumbledore but Dumbledore didn't trust Sirius' mental state and he wanted the Dursley's to raise Harry to keep him safer
C: JK didn't think it trough
Posted on 10/31/24 at 3:54 am to Frac the world
They knew he WAS a good guy
Posted on 10/31/24 at 4:08 am to Frac the world
They all thought Sirius was the one who had betrayed the Potters, and they figured he would go after Harry to finish the job.
The Potters were hidden from Voldemort by using a secret keeper, the secret being their location. In order for the magic to work, only the secret keeper could know that they were the secret keeper.
Dumbledore and everyone else assumed that Sirius was the Potters' secret keeper, but they couldn't know for sure or the magic wouldn't work. The Potters had actually used Pettigrew as their secret keeper to try and swerve people. Basically, no one thought that the Potters would have used weak arse Pettigrew as the secret keeper.
Voldemort got to Pettigrew (presumably to try and find Sirius in order to find the location of the Potters), broke Pettigrew's will, and made him reveal that he was the secret keeper. Pettigrew then gave Voldemort the Potters' location to save himself.
Snape knew that Voldemort was trying to find and kill Lily, and he begged Dumbledore for help. Dumbledore made Snape keep acting as a double agent. Snape found out that Voldemort had found the Potters b/c of this and went to try and save Lily but was too late.
There's no indication that the other Death Eaters knew what Voldemort had found out about Pettigrew and the Potters. It's implied that he didn't trust others with information. He only told them what they needed to know to do specific tasks he assigned to them.
Presumably, no one besides Voldemort realized that Pettigrew was the secret keeper and the one who snitched. Sirius knew that he himself wasn't the secret keeper, so he figured it was Pettigrew and went after him in revenge after hearing that the Potters were killed.
Everyone else thought that it was Pettigrew who confronted Sirius after the Potters were killed, and that Sirius blew up Pettigrew and a crowd of muggles when Pettigrew confronted him. But Pettigrew was the one that cut off his own finger, caused the explosion, and then stayed transformed as a rat (which was a secret and illegal magic that only Lupin, and presumably Dumbledore, knew he could so with James dead and Sirius in Azkaban).
I think that's what they went with from all the different perspectives.
The Potters were hidden from Voldemort by using a secret keeper, the secret being their location. In order for the magic to work, only the secret keeper could know that they were the secret keeper.
Dumbledore and everyone else assumed that Sirius was the Potters' secret keeper, but they couldn't know for sure or the magic wouldn't work. The Potters had actually used Pettigrew as their secret keeper to try and swerve people. Basically, no one thought that the Potters would have used weak arse Pettigrew as the secret keeper.
Voldemort got to Pettigrew (presumably to try and find Sirius in order to find the location of the Potters), broke Pettigrew's will, and made him reveal that he was the secret keeper. Pettigrew then gave Voldemort the Potters' location to save himself.
Snape knew that Voldemort was trying to find and kill Lily, and he begged Dumbledore for help. Dumbledore made Snape keep acting as a double agent. Snape found out that Voldemort had found the Potters b/c of this and went to try and save Lily but was too late.
There's no indication that the other Death Eaters knew what Voldemort had found out about Pettigrew and the Potters. It's implied that he didn't trust others with information. He only told them what they needed to know to do specific tasks he assigned to them.
Presumably, no one besides Voldemort realized that Pettigrew was the secret keeper and the one who snitched. Sirius knew that he himself wasn't the secret keeper, so he figured it was Pettigrew and went after him in revenge after hearing that the Potters were killed.
Everyone else thought that it was Pettigrew who confronted Sirius after the Potters were killed, and that Sirius blew up Pettigrew and a crowd of muggles when Pettigrew confronted him. But Pettigrew was the one that cut off his own finger, caused the explosion, and then stayed transformed as a rat (which was a secret and illegal magic that only Lupin, and presumably Dumbledore, knew he could so with James dead and Sirius in Azkaban).
I think that's what they went with from all the different perspectives.
This post was edited on 10/31/24 at 4:42 am
Posted on 10/31/24 at 4:38 am to saintsfan92612
quote:
I think the biggest plot hole is that all the Death Eaters knew that Pettigrew was the one who sent Voldemort to the Potters house.
So therefore Snape would know...
That's not true. In the books it is explicitly stated that not every Death Eater was privy to the other's identity. In Goblet of Fire, Igor Karkaroff stated that only Voldemort knew who they all were. When Snape shows up at the Shrieking Shack towards the end of Prisoner of Azkaban, it's quite clear that he believes Sirius Black to be the spy who betrayed Lily and James Potter.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 8:30 am to Frac the world
When I saw the title of this thread I thought it was going to be a movie about someone taking on their property owners association.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 8:36 am to CrazyTigerFan
quote:
They all thought Sirius was the one who had betrayed the Potters, and they figured he would go after Harry to finish the job.
The Potters were hidden from Voldemort by using a secret keeper, the secret being their location. In order for the magic to work, only the secret keeper could know that they were the secret keeper.
Dumbledore and everyone else assumed that Sirius was the Potters' secret keeper, but they couldn't know for sure or the magic wouldn't work. The Potters had actually used Pettigrew as their secret keeper to try and swerve people. Basically, no one thought that the Potters would have used weak arse Pettigrew as the secret keeper.
Voldemort got to Pettigrew (presumably to try and find Sirius in order to find the location of the Potters), broke Pettigrew's will, and made him reveal that he was the secret keeper. Pettigrew then gave Voldemort the Potters' location to save himself.
Snape knew that Voldemort was trying to find and kill Lily, and he begged Dumbledore for help. Dumbledore made Snape keep acting as a double agent. Snape found out that Voldemort had found the Potters b/c of this and went to try and save Lily but was too late.
There's no indication that the other Death Eaters knew what Voldemort had found out about Pettigrew and the Potters. It's implied that he didn't trust others with information. He only told them what they needed to know to do specific tasks he assigned to them.
Presumably, no one besides Voldemort realized that Pettigrew was the secret keeper and the one who snitched. Sirius knew that he himself wasn't the secret keeper, so he figured it was Pettigrew and went after him in revenge after hearing that the Potters were killed.
Everyone else thought that it was Pettigrew who confronted Sirius after the Potters were killed, and that Sirius blew up Pettigrew and a crowd of muggles when Pettigrew confronted him. But Pettigrew was the one that cut off his own finger, caused the explosion, and then stayed transformed as a rat (which was a secret and illegal magic that only Lupin, and presumably Dumbledore, knew he could so with James dead and Sirius in Azkaban).
I think that's what they went with from all the different perspectives.
Yeah it is this. People thought Sirius was the secret keeper and betrayed James and Lilly. No one knew but James, Lilly and Pettigrew that Pettigrew was the secret keeper.
No one knew James, Sirius, and Pettigrew were animagus outside of Lupin (Werewolf) and Dumbledore.
So the story fit that Sirius (of the Black family who were mostly all dark wizards) betrayed Lilly and James and killed Pettigrew.
Lupin and Dumbledore would have been the only 2 people that would have recognized Pettigrew as Scabbers. Pettigrew found his way to a wizard family so he could keep up with the news.
It really is another situation where Dumbledore dropped the ball and thinking things out if you are looking for someone to blame.
This post was edited on 10/31/24 at 8:38 am
Posted on 10/31/24 at 9:38 am to HottyToddy7
Dumbledore is not really super competent when you analyze all of his actions.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 12:05 pm to CrazyTigerFan
quote:
They all thought Sirius was the one who had betrayed the Potters, and they figured he would go after Harry to finish the job.
The Potters were hidden from Voldemort by using a secret keeper, the secret being their location. In order for the magic to work, only the secret keeper could know that they were the secret keeper.
Dumbledore and everyone else assumed that Sirius was the Potters' secret keeper, but they couldn't know for sure or the magic wouldn't work. The Potters had actually used Pettigrew as their secret keeper to try and swerve people. Basically, no one thought that the Potters would have used weak arse Pettigrew as the secret keeper.
Voldemort got to Pettigrew (presumably to try and find Sirius in order to find the location of the Potters), broke Pettigrew's will, and made him reveal that he was the secret keeper. Pettigrew then gave Voldemort the Potters' location to save himself.
Snape knew that Voldemort was trying to find and kill Lily, and he begged Dumbledore for help. Dumbledore made Snape keep acting as a double agent. Snape found out that Voldemort had found the Potters b/c of this and went to try and save Lily but was too late.
There's no indication that the other Death Eaters knew what Voldemort had found out about Pettigrew and the Potters. It's implied that he didn't trust others with information. He only told them what they needed to know to do specific tasks he assigned to them.
Presumably, no one besides Voldemort realized that Pettigrew was the secret keeper and the one who snitched. Sirius knew that he himself wasn't the secret keeper, so he figured it was Pettigrew and went after him in revenge after hearing that the Potters were killed.
Everyone else thought that it was Pettigrew who confronted Sirius after the Potters were killed, and that Sirius blew up Pettigrew and a crowd of muggles when Pettigrew confronted him. But Pettigrew was the one that cut off his own finger, caused the explosion, and then stayed transformed as a rat (which was a secret and illegal magic that only Lupin, and presumably Dumbledore, knew he could so with James dead and Sirius in Azkaban).
I think that's what they went with from all the different perspectives.
After reading all this, I feel like this would make a great movie/series instead of the reboot they're doing, the Fantastic Beast movies, etc.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 12:07 pm to CP3forMVP
quote:
After reading all this, I feel like this would make a great movie/series instead of the reboot they're doing, the Fantastic Beast movies, etc.
Most HP fans would agree with you.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 2:47 pm to CP3forMVP
hot take: Voldemort was right
The wizarding world lived under unnecessary crippling bureaucracy led by the ministry and didn't provide the people with shite besides protection from the non-wizarding world.
the series is why England failed. they cucked themselves to government regulations and convinced themselves it is a good thing.
the magic world should have just taken out the muggles and advanced humanity
The wizarding world lived under unnecessary crippling bureaucracy led by the ministry and didn't provide the people with shite besides protection from the non-wizarding world.
the series is why England failed. they cucked themselves to government regulations and convinced themselves it is a good thing.
the magic world should have just taken out the muggles and advanced humanity
Posted on 10/31/24 at 2:53 pm to Dire Wolf
quote:
the magic world should have just taken out the muggles and advanced humanity
One drone strike to Malfoy Manor and the entire death eater leadership is toast. They can’t handle this smoke.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 5:01 pm to CP3forMVP
quote:
After reading all this, I feel like this would make a great movie/series instead of the reboot they're doing, the Fantastic Beast movies, etc.
FWIW I think the chose the wrong schoolbook. They could do unlimited creative ideas if the did movies or shows on Hogwarts’ history.
Posted on 10/31/24 at 5:12 pm to CrazyTigerFan
quote:
They all thought Sirius was the one who had betrayed the Potters, and they figured he would go after Harry to finish the job. The Potters were hidden from Voldemort by using a secret keeper, the secret being their location. In order for the magic to work, only the secret keeper could know that they were the secret keeper. Dumbledore and everyone else assumed that Sirius was the Potters' secret keeper, but they couldn't know for sure or the magic wouldn't work. The Potters had actually used Pettigrew as their secret keeper to try and swerve people. Basically, no one thought that the Potters would have used weak arse Pettigrew as the secret keeper. Voldemort got to Pettigrew (presumably to try and find Sirius in order to find the location of the Potters), broke Pettigrew's will, and made him reveal that he was the secret keeper. Pettigrew then gave Voldemort the Potters' location to save himself. Snape knew that Voldemort was trying to find and kill Lily, and he begged Dumbledore for help. Dumbledore made Snape keep acting as a double agent. Snape found out that Voldemort had found the Potters b/c of this and went to try and save Lily but was too late. There's no indication that the other Death Eaters knew what Voldemort had found out about Pettigrew and the Potters. It's implied that he didn't trust others with information. He only told them what they needed to know to do specific tasks he assigned to them. Presumably, no one besides Voldemort realized that Pettigrew was the secret keeper and the one who snitched. Sirius knew that he himself wasn't the secret keeper, so he figured it was Pettigrew and went after him in revenge after hearing that the Potters were killed. Everyone else thought that it was Pettigrew who confronted Sirius after the Potters were killed, and that Sirius blew up Pettigrew and a crowd of muggles when Pettigrew confronted him. But Pettigrew was the one that cut off his own finger, caused the explosion, and then stayed transformed as a rat (which was a secret and illegal magic that only Lupin, and presumably Dumbledore, knew he could so with James dead and Sirius in Azkaban). I think that's what they went with from all the different perspectives.
This is what I needed, thanks baw
quote:
Ham Solo
Sorry title was indeed shite 
Posted on 10/31/24 at 9:54 pm to Dire Wolf
Very interesting.
But VM was who was responsible for nerfing the ministry and hence Hogwarts via Umbridge et al. So seems like the message is equally anti-fascist.
But VM was who was responsible for nerfing the ministry and hence Hogwarts via Umbridge et al. So seems like the message is equally anti-fascist.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 2:12 pm to HottyToddy7
quote:
No one knew James, Sirius, and Pettigrew were animagus outside of Lupin (Werewolf) and Dumbledore.
Dumbledore did NOT know they were Animagus until the end of PoA. That's why Sirius was able to get into Gryffindor Tower as a dog. Lupin told Harry and them in the shrieking shack that he regretted with holding that information from Dumbledore when He went so far out of his way to help him stay at Hogwarts as a student and gave him a teaching position. He also mentioned in his same story that he felt horrible for not telling him once again after Sirius got into the tower.
The biggest mistake was Harry's parents going with Pettigrew instead of Sirius. You have to assume Voldemort would try to find and get that information from James best friend. Regardless of if he knew the secret or not, Sirius would have died before giving that secret away if possible. And Pettigrew was already playing both sides at that point. Sirius and Lupin both said that in PoA that Dumbledore suspected a spy among them beforehand. Sirius suggested Pettigrew to be the secret keeper thinking the target would be on HIS back and Lupin was turned spy because of the other werewolves being in Voldemort side. That's why they apologized to each other in the shack. One thought the other betrayed Lily and James, and the other thought his friend became a spy.
Posted on 11/1/24 at 2:21 pm to saintsfan92612
quote:
C: JK didn't think it trough
The author who made goblins long nosed money hungry bankers, had a plot line where house elves liked being slaves and everyone was annoyed at the one character who was horrified, and had kids invent rape.. sorry "love" potions possibly didn't think something through?
Also, IMO the issue isn't w/Sirius. It's that there was a Pettigrew running around on the map and the Weasley twins and later Harry somehow never noticed a name they would have never heard constantly moving around their dorm.
This post was edited on 11/1/24 at 2:28 pm
Posted on 11/1/24 at 4:56 pm to sportsaddit68
quote:
Dumbledore did NOT know they were Animagus until the end of PoA. That's why Sirius was able to get into Gryffindor Tower as a dog. Lupin told Harry and them in the shrieking shack that he regretted with holding that information from Dumbledore when He went so far out of his way to help him stay at Hogwarts as a student and gave him a teaching position. He also mentioned in his same story that he felt horrible for not telling him once again after Sirius got into the tower.
That sounds right. I guess in my head cannon I assume AD knew about them when the Whomping Willow was put in place. But I guess my head cannon is wrong.
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