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re: Saints and Eagles trade draft picks
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:11 pm to Fun Bunch
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:11 pm to Fun Bunch
Maybe they look at it that by getting healthy we actually improved; especially if they add 2 1st round players and pick up a few FAs still out there on 1 year deals.
They gained Winston & MT coming back. You have to assume the full year, would be foolish if teams plan on a player only playing less than 50% of the games. And, you can even say the same about other playoff teams; what happens if Brady or Rodgers get a season ending injury in week 7?
Lost Armstead (address in draft)
Lost Williams & Jenkins, but replaced with Maye & unknown (Draft, Mathieu?)
Kwon is still out there, so either relying on Werner or bring Kwon back
What am I missing that says there will be a massive drop off; especially when you consider the mass-exodus from the NFC. Make playoffs, and they are picking at 18th at worse. Make past 1st round and now they are at 24th at worse
They gained Winston & MT coming back. You have to assume the full year, would be foolish if teams plan on a player only playing less than 50% of the games. And, you can even say the same about other playoff teams; what happens if Brady or Rodgers get a season ending injury in week 7?
Lost Armstead (address in draft)
Lost Williams & Jenkins, but replaced with Maye & unknown (Draft, Mathieu?)
Kwon is still out there, so either relying on Werner or bring Kwon back
What am I missing that says there will be a massive drop off; especially when you consider the mass-exodus from the NFC. Make playoffs, and they are picking at 18th at worse. Make past 1st round and now they are at 24th at worse
0
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:11 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:You're looking at the specific details, breaking up the trade into multiple moves instead of solely looking at what we added vs what we gave up since it's just 1 trade in totality
The Saints had to give up value to move up from 18 to 16. They then had to give up value to acquire 19.
quote:If you concede the value of the 2 picks is immaterial, why can't you? Again, it's the same reason we're not talking about a 6th vs a 7th.
I am taking crazy pills here.
You cannot do this.
This post was edited on 4/4/22 at 4:13 pm
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:13 pm to saintsfan22
quote:
NFL Live keeps saying we're jumping the Chargers. Seems like we gave the Chargers a bunch of lead time to work their jump.
This is draft capital to jump up if needed.
You don’t jump ahead of others now for the reason you mentioned.
We are probably targeting a QB in the top 10. Unfortunately this is the worst crop of QBs in a while.
And our #1 next year is probably going to be rather high.
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:13 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:It's all the picks they gave up for all the picks we gave up
Which is my whole point. Its 16/18. They acquired 19.
This post was edited on 4/4/22 at 4:14 pm
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:13 pm to shel311
quote:
If you concede the value of the 2 picks is immaterial, why can't you
I'm conceding that I don't feel like typing the whole thing out every time.
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:14 pm to shel311
quote:
It's all the picks for all the picks.
HIS framing, a non-Saints fan, is that the Saints moved back a spot. A negative connotation, which is intentional. They then had to give up a bunch to get a another 1st.
I don't see it that way. I think they moved UP two spots and also acquired another 1st.
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:14 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:Fine
I'm conceding that I don't feel like typing the whole thing out every time.
I still submit that while you say you understand what is being said, you're still missing something key that is being argued . That much seems obvious.
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:15 pm to shel311
I understand completely what is being said.
Both he and you are wrong. Your framing is incorrect.
What is being argued is incorrect.
Both he and you are wrong. Your framing is incorrect.
quote:
you're still missing something key that is being argued
What is being argued is incorrect.
This post was edited on 4/4/22 at 4:17 pm
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:15 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:He's not doing that.
HIS framing, a non-Saints fan, is that the Saints moved back a spot
He's saying since those 2 picks are immaterial in value, exactly like the 6th and 7th, just toss them out and look at the deal as #16 for the 1st/2nd/3rd. THAT is what he's saying. Nothing about moving back 1 spot.
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:16 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:Except you're not:
I understand completely what is being said.
Both he and you are wrong.
quote:Clearly not, I'd say
HIS framing, a non-Saints fan, is that the Saints moved back a spot
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:16 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
HIS framing, a non-Saints fan, is that the Saints moved back a spot. A negative connotation, which is intentional.
Dude, no it wasn’t
plenty of people in here took my point with zero offense or negative connotation It’s literally just common sense
I removed both the saints 1st and the eagles first from the trade, so then “moving back a spot” wasn’t mentioned at all or inferred at all.
The whole point is that you don’t count the cost of the saints 1st nor the value of the eagles 1st because it’s a wash.
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:17 pm to saints5021
This is a Todd Mcshay grading rumor. Theres no telling how many we do or don't have first round grades on. We love a few mid round guys apperntly. Penning OT and Burks Wr n i would be ecstatic.
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:18 pm to shel311
quote:
Clearly not, I'd say
He is saying the Saints moving back from 18 to 19 is immaterial in value, therefore it is only about the 16.
First of all, even if you accept that flawed starting point, its wrong.
Second, I am saying that is not what happened and therefore you simply cannot throw it out.
I am saying does the value of moving up from 18 to 16, and acquiring 19, add up to an extra future first, a 3rd, and a future 2nd?
The framing and language are different.
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:19 pm to wildtigercat93
quote:
I removed both the saints 1st and the eagles first from the trade, so then “moving back a spot” wasn’t mentioned at all or inferred at all.
it is 100% inferred. You're taking out the value of moving up two spots in the draft and instead having the Saints move back a spot and claiming that value is "immaterial"
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:19 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:Here's what he said:
HIS framing, a non-Saints fan, is that the Saints moved back a spot.
quote:The main premise is NOT the Saints moving back, but the nearly identical value of the 2 picks.
There’s no order of operations here, the trade involved a pick swap (for lack of a better word) between 18 and 19. Those two assets are near identical in value, so the trade is much easier to understand if you just ignore it and look at the rest of the trade.
AGAIN, that is where you're not understanding, that's 100% at this point when you keep focusing on the "Saints moving back" when it's actually the "value is nearly identical"
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:21 pm to shel311
quote:
the trade involved a pick swap (for lack of a better word) between 18 and 19.
This is a flawed starting point.
Its a pick swap between 18 and 16.
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:22 pm to shel311
quote:
AGAIN, that is where you're not understanding, that's 100% at this point when you keep focusing on the "Saints moving back" when it's actually the "value is nearly identical"
Which is incorrect.
I understand completely what he is trying to do. I just believe he is wrong.
I will move on.
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:22 pm to shel311
Meh. This happens every time the Saints trade picks. Everyone says the same thing but makes it sound good or bad based on how the feel about it.
Lets discuss a couple of things said earlier.
1st: The Saints got considerably worst. I disagree. Marcus Maye is better than Marcus Williams. Jenkins retiring will not help, but a coinciding move hasn't been made. Armstead was great, but his best ability was not being available. Hurst can handle it but I expect a pick at T. MT comes back and the WR group gets insanely better. Not to mention the Hill at QB thing is over. He goes back to playing all Skill positions. This helps the offense.
2nd: This draft sucks, next years is better. We can't know that until the picks are made. If they draft two pro-bowl players at 16 and 19, the who gives a shite what next year's players are.
Lets discuss a couple of things said earlier.
1st: The Saints got considerably worst. I disagree. Marcus Maye is better than Marcus Williams. Jenkins retiring will not help, but a coinciding move hasn't been made. Armstead was great, but his best ability was not being available. Hurst can handle it but I expect a pick at T. MT comes back and the WR group gets insanely better. Not to mention the Hill at QB thing is over. He goes back to playing all Skill positions. This helps the offense.
2nd: This draft sucks, next years is better. We can't know that until the picks are made. If they draft two pro-bowl players at 16 and 19, the who gives a shite what next year's players are.
This post was edited on 4/4/22 at 4:24 pm
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:23 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:.
According to the @PP_Rich_Hill trade chart, which re-evaluated the value of picks based on modern trades, the Saints and Eagles made an even trade
Underhill
Posted on 4/4/22 at 4:23 pm to Fun Bunch
quote:
We certainly didn't act like a team going "all-in" in Free Agency outside of the Watson interest. So why go all in Draft wise but not FA wise?
Are you new to the Saints? (I am aware that you are not new)
They always go bargain shopping in FA and go all in on the draft.
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