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Started By
Message
re: Atomic bombs or fire bombs on Japan
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:10 pm to joshnorris14
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:10 pm to joshnorris14
quote:
You forgot about Truman's bloodlust
Where do people come up with this shite?
1
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:15 pm to Auburn1968
quote:I did a paper for my Honors college on this exact subject over 40 years ago.
Atomic bombs or fire bombs on Japan
Ended up being on the side of the nuclear bombs were more "humane" and had less of a total death toll exacted on Japanese and on the War ending quickly because of it.
The older I get, the less I know; the targets were different, the real toll of nuclear sickness issues can't bee completely known.
It's probably a tie for terrible.
(I personally also favored the nuclear option because I wouldn't be here if we'd had to invade the Home Islands. I didn't share that though.)
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:30 pm to Hangover Haven
quote:
Not only what they did to the Chinese,
what they did to the Chinese was one of the worst atrocities of all time.
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:34 pm to soccerfüt
quote:
did a paper for my Honors college on this exact subject over 40 years ago.
Ended up being on the side of the nuclear bombs were more "humane" and had less of a total death toll exacted on Japanese and on the War ending quickly because of it.
You should go back and re-research. The bombs were not needed, Japan wanted to surrender. The terms were not acceptable to the the allied powers who demanded the Emperor step down.
After the bombs were dropped they were ok with the Emperor retaining his title and worked with him for 2 years to establish the future Japanese government and he resided as Emperor until 1989.
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:38 pm to joshnorris14
quote:
You forgot about Truman's bloodlust.
The bombs SAVED millions of Japanese lives.
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:46 pm to joshnorris14
quote:
This is almost 100% spot on. You forgot about Truman's bloodlust.
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:46 pm to joshnorris14
quote:You should go back and research too. There was a significant pushback from the military folks who were running the country against surrender. It was unprecedented and shocking to the War Cabinet that Hirohito unilaterally decided to surrender.
You should go back and re-research. The bombs were not needed, Japan wanted to surrender. The terms were not acceptable to the the allied powers who demanded the Emperor step down.
Some of the folks who wanted to fight on wanted to get better surrender terms after an invasion of the Home Islands would display how costly a land campaign would be to the invaders.
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:51 pm to soccerfüt
LeMay had 2000 more B29's on order and about 15,000 B17s, B24's and Lancasters he could call on and they could be less that 400 miles away. The Japanese air force was out classed in every way and was a weak shadow of its former self.
That potential looks to me to be far more destructive on a much wider array of targets than a couple of atomic bombs.
That potential looks to me to be far more destructive on a much wider array of targets than a couple of atomic bombs.
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:51 pm to joshnorris14
quote:
You should go back and re-research. The bombs were not needed, Japan wanted to surrender. The terms were not acceptable to the the allied powers who demanded the Emperor step down.
After the bombs were dropped they were ok with the Emperor retaining his title and worked with him for 2 years to establish the future Japanese government and he resided as Emperor until 1989.
Ah, the "you should go back and research like me, because I ... I have researched, peasant!".
Plenty of well-respected historians have noted, with plenty of evidence, there was no desire by the Japanese military to surrender/stop fighting, regardless of the status of the emperor. In fact, there's credible evidence a coup was considered since some within the emperor's circle wanted peace.
Get out of here with "Truman's bloodlust" crap.
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:52 pm to Auburn1968
Fire bombing killed more people than the atom bombs. Invading Japan would have producing more casualties 20 fold or more.
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:53 pm to SoFla Tideroller
quote:
Where do people come up with this shite?
Jon Stewart. When the Daily Show still had viewers he pushed the narrative that the USA should've used the little fissionable material we had to just drop a bomb out in the ocean and cross our fingers that Japan would see it and immediately capitulate instead of fighting till death like they promised. He also called Truman a war criminal just for approving the bomb drops, which he then half arse walked back in a following episode after people pointed out how mind numbingly stupid his far left takes were.
Posted on 6/23/25 at 2:59 pm to Tridentds
Dresden was awful, but Guernica was the first example, so there was a stark precedent...
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:03 pm to CBandits82
quote:
one of the worst atrocities of all time.
Hitler killed 6 million Jews
Stalin killed 8 million Ukrainians before that
How many Chinese did the Japs rack up?
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:06 pm to Winterbush
Not only should Truman have dropped the bombs, he should have been immediately impeached should he have refused to do so. Can you imagine a president not using a weapon that could immediately end the war, saving hundreds of thousands of Americans (not to mention, millions of Japanese)?
"Folks, I'm sorry forall of your sons killed in the invasion of the Japanese mainland. We had a weapon that could have brought Japan to the table back in August of '45, but 80 years from now some liberal arts majors and white women will express faux outrage and concern if I had okayed its use."
"Folks, I'm sorry forall of your sons killed in the invasion of the Japanese mainland. We had a weapon that could have brought Japan to the table back in August of '45, but 80 years from now some liberal arts majors and white women will express faux outrage and concern if I had okayed its use."
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:07 pm to CBandits82
quote:
consequences of Japan's horrific actions going back to the '20's. they were savages and had to be put down.
And we bombed them so hard that they’re now into Anime and tentacle porn
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:08 pm to deltadummy
quote:
In fact, there's credible evidence a coup was considered since some within the emperor's circle wanted peace.
A coup wasn't just considered, it was executed and failed...
After the atomic bombs were dropped. Not before
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:11 pm to joshnorris14
quote:
A coup wasn't just considered, it was executed and failed...
After the atomic bombs were dropped. Not before
Wrongo. A coup was attempted before the bombs were dropped.
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:14 pm to joshnorris14
.
This post was edited on 6/23/25 at 3:15 pm
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:15 pm to deltadummy
quote:
Wrongo
LINK
quote:
The Japanese refer to the attempted coup d’e´tat on Aug. 14, 1945, the last night of the Second World War, as the “Kyujo Incident.” Ringleaders Kenji Hatanaka and Jiro Shiizaki, officers at the army ministry, led a battalion of rebels into the Imperial Palace. Lying brazenly, Hatanaka and Shiizaki told the commander of the Second Imperial Guard Regiment that the top brass had ordered the palace sealed off from the outside. The guards, believing that a broader revolt was afoot, agreed to comply with their instructions pending the arrival of the Eastern Army. But Lieutenant General Takeshi Mori, commander of the guards, smelled a rat. Refusing to join the plot, he was shot dead in cold blood. The confederates then forged an order in General Mori’s name and sealed it with Mori’s official stamp. The document instructed the Imperial Guards to occupy the palace, seal off communications with anyone outside the moats and “protect” the emperor against unspecified threats.
Posted on 6/23/25 at 3:16 pm to Cheese Grits
quote:
How many Chinese did the Japs rack up?
quote:
During World War II, Japan's actions in China resulted in a devastating loss of Chinese life, both civilian and military. Estimates for the total number of Chinese killed during the Second Sino-Japanese War (1937-1945), which merged into the larger World War II, range from 15 million to 20 million people. Some estimates even reach as high as 20 to 37 million.
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