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Posted on 10/30/23 at 2:36 pm to DomincDecoco
quote:
Just to be clear, you're using a cartoon as a reference? Also, RAMPAGE!
M for Mancy
Posted on 10/30/23 at 2:39 pm to NYNolaguy1
quote:
There's videos on the interwebs of people burning paper with supe heated steam.
That steam would have to reach 424–475 °F. Which is possible but not sure how common that is. Some applications use very high-temperature steam but most I have seen are in pressurized containers where the boiling point is much higher than 212 F.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 4:08 pm to DomincDecoco
quote:
Just to be clear, you're using a cartoon as a reference?
Well, it piqued my curiosity so I went and researched it.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 4:13 pm to mdomingue
quote:
That steam would have to reach 424–475 °F. Which is possible but not sure how common that is.
I would imagine a lot of the industrial plants in the area have steam that temp. Anything over 300# should be sufficient.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 6:05 pm to fightin tigers
quote:
I would imagine a lot of the industrial plants in the area have steam that temp. Anything over 300# should be sufficient.
Most of the places that I've worked with steam did not, but very large steam turbines should have steam that is well above that temperature range. Which is why I'm not sure. I think there may be more than a few chemical plants that use high-temperature steam as part of a process as well.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 6:41 pm to Jim Rockford
I can tell you for a fact that 1005 degree steam at 2450 pounds of pressure will ignite paper and the straws on a broom and a dry cotton rag, seen it happen to those 3 materials while using them to search for a leak on a main steam line to a 650 MW turbine.
This post was edited on 10/31/23 at 7:46 am
Posted on 10/30/23 at 6:43 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
can superheated steam ignite a flammable substance?
Absolutely. When working with 900 psi steam it is too hot to see a leak so people use straw brooms to wave around a potential leak and yes they will catch on fire.
If you recall Ray Bradbury's novel "Farenheit 451." 451 is the temp that paper allegedly combusts. So if your steam is hotter than 451 F you good.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 7:07 pm to Jim Rockford
Yes and no. The answers provided by posters with personal experiences of such make me think something else is occurring. Let me explain.
We mix superheated steam and flammable substances everyday in chemical plants like ethylene crackers and reforming units. They are directly mixed in pipes in a very hot environment but react in such a way that is 100% different from burning. In fact these reactions are usually endothermic meaning they require additional heat to keep the reaction going on the outside of the pipes (usually in a furnace).
The answers where people describe brooms catching fire make me think the steam is so hot that the air around it is heated by convection to a temperature higher than the broom bristles flash point. The bristles do NOT combust with steam, only oxygen can do so. Meaning the steam did not displace the oxygen in the vicinity where the broom caught on fire.
We mix superheated steam and flammable substances everyday in chemical plants like ethylene crackers and reforming units. They are directly mixed in pipes in a very hot environment but react in such a way that is 100% different from burning. In fact these reactions are usually endothermic meaning they require additional heat to keep the reaction going on the outside of the pipes (usually in a furnace).
The answers where people describe brooms catching fire make me think the steam is so hot that the air around it is heated by convection to a temperature higher than the broom bristles flash point. The bristles do NOT combust with steam, only oxygen can do so. Meaning the steam did not displace the oxygen in the vicinity where the broom caught on fire.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 7:13 pm to Trevaylin
quote:
no...steam is used to extinguish flames by displacing oxygen
Not every substance requires oxygen to burn.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 7:22 pm to Porter Osborne Jr
He is correct with his statement. Plants use it specifically for this to superheat a product ie: kerosene to bring it to its flash point to ignite easily. It’s a cost savings method
Posted on 10/30/23 at 7:33 pm to Jim Rockford
1000 psi would yield a temp of 546 F. Gasoline will ignite at 536 F.
I am going to say No, since steam at that pressure when released into atmosphere would almost pressure explode, pushing away all oxygen. I do know steam is used to fight fires.
I am going to say No, since steam at that pressure when released into atmosphere would almost pressure explode, pushing away all oxygen. I do know steam is used to fight fires.
This post was edited on 10/30/23 at 7:38 pm
Posted on 10/30/23 at 8:14 pm to Penrod
check the definition of flammable per wikipedia. Almost all discussion involves oxygen in the process. Yes there are compounds that will auto combust with the oxidizer being part of the molecule. Acetayl Monoperacetate is an example. Solid rocket fuel is another but those are outside the common definition of flammable
Posted on 10/30/23 at 8:26 pm to Jim Rockford
quote:
superheated steam
at extremely high pressures, terrifying
Posted on 10/30/23 at 9:26 pm to Epicenter1
quote:
The answers where people describe brooms catching fire make me think the steam is so hot that the air around it is heated by convection to a temperature higher than the broom bristles flash point. The bristles do NOT combust with steam, only oxygen can do so. Meaning the steam did not displace the oxygen in the vicinity where the broom caught on fire.
I mean.. yeah. But I think that still pretty clearly qualifies as being set on fire by the steam.
Steam can very clearly reach temperatures required for autoignition of other materials, you just need an environment where it’s possible for the flammable material to be exposed to that temperature in the presence of oxygen.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 10:20 pm to Jim Rockford
Both
Posted on 10/30/23 at 10:24 pm to scrooster
quote:
Anyone who has been through demolition school in the Army can answer this ... and the answer is yes.
Bro, the Navy baws (including my parents) are far more obsessive. I was in elementary school when I was taught that if there was a steam leak, don't move. You'll probably live if you don't run around and get yourself cut in half. Just stay still.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 10:29 pm to GetmorewithLes
quote:
When working with 900 psi steam it is too hot to see a leak so people use straw brooms to wave around a potential leak and yes they will catch on fire
Gotta love redneck ingenuity. Have a life threatening leak with superheated steam under pressure? Need some thermal imaging or high tech to spot it?
frick no…give me a broom.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 10:37 pm to Jim Rockford
Is this a chemistry question or a physics question, though? That's the question.
Posted on 10/30/23 at 11:03 pm to Jim Rockford
Yes
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