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Started By
Message
re: States with less people than DFW
Posted on 10/16/25 at 8:50 pm to DarthRebel
Posted on 10/16/25 at 8:50 pm to DarthRebel
Now do Los Angeles County.
1
Posted on 10/16/25 at 9:06 pm to TBoy
My company is in Denver and that traffic is the worst. US News and reports updated 2025 rankings has Denver average time in traffic per week at 5 hours 11 minutes. Dallas is 4 hours 44 minutes.
Also the cost of living in Denver is a joke now. Many people can’t afford it
Also the cost of living in Denver is a joke now. Many people can’t afford it
Posted on 10/16/25 at 10:06 pm to LSUGrrrl
Yep. I-20 sucks.
Posted on 10/16/25 at 10:28 pm to Buckeye06
quote:
I mean not if you have a good job here and family in the state. It's a great place to live with "funds" so you do need to earn 6 figures here for sure
The economic opportunity in a place like Dallas is very hard to come by in most places for someone that has to migrate to get work, unless you do dangerous work in far flung places or you are highly educated and specialized.
I got dropped here for work when it was still very cheap, right as the financial world was melting down. Thought I would be here three years, ended up just falling into an easy life living in a massively convenient part of the city for very little money. I’ll always have our family house in Dallas. It finally caught up to other major cities.
This post was edited on 10/16/25 at 10:29 pm
Posted on 10/16/25 at 10:29 pm to The Third Leg
quote:
Economic opportunity in a place like Dallas is very hard to come by for someone that has to migrate entire work, unless you do dangerous work in far flung places or you are highly educated and specialized.
Huh?
Posted on 10/16/25 at 10:29 pm to Mingo Was His NameO
I’m high Mingo.
Posted on 10/16/25 at 11:12 pm to Lonnie Utah
quote:
Are an abomination. I've already paid for the road once. Why should I pay for it again?
That is not how it works.
The toll roads being built are private and not public. NTTA is building the toll roads and not TxDOT. Using the example of SH 121, the state highway still exists and you are free to use it. That is what your tax dollars paid for. NTTA came in and built an 8 lane freeway with their money. The tolls are paying the debt and maintenance of the freeway. The same is true for Dallas North Tollway and George Bush.
TxDOT does not carry near the budget to build the roads needed.
Posted on 10/16/25 at 11:24 pm to mmmmmbeeer
quote:
The founders would be appalled by how many voters are essentially being taxed without representation in this country.
Huh? Texas has the second highest number of electors out of 50 states, and is slated to get 4 more votes in 2030 after Reappointment ends. How are you “not represented”?
Posted on 10/17/25 at 12:18 am to SUB
quote:
NYC would have the same map pretty much too.
And is 1/20th the size of the metroplex. Metroplex encompasses 9,286 square miles. New York City has a total area of approximately 472 square miles. And 172 of that is water.
MIndboggling.
Posted on 10/17/25 at 7:07 am to DarthRebel
quote:
The toll roads being built are private and not public. NTTA is building the toll roads and not TxDOT. Using the example of SH 121, the state highway still exists and you are free to use it. That is what your tax dollars paid for. NTTA came in and built an 8 lane freeway with their money. The tolls are paying the debt and maintenance of the freeway. The same is true for Dallas North Tollway and George Bush.
Lol. Yeah, NTTA came in and used their money! The NTTA is the fricking government—a non profit extension of the government with no other purpose. It isn’t their money.
They sell fricking government bonds to pay for roads then you pay tolls to pay back the bond, wanker.
This post was edited on 10/17/25 at 7:48 am
Posted on 10/17/25 at 7:54 am to DarthRebel
Way too many people here now. Before covid wasn't that bad, during the commute was nice, but it gets worse every year now.
I-35W and I-30 are almost impossible for my morning and evening commute. I usually travel state hwys, takes a little longer but no wrecks and I keep moving.
I can't wait until I retire and can move to somewhere like east Tennessee, away from larger cities.
I-35W and I-30 are almost impossible for my morning and evening commute. I usually travel state hwys, takes a little longer but no wrecks and I keep moving.
I can't wait until I retire and can move to somewhere like east Tennessee, away from larger cities.
Posted on 10/17/25 at 8:44 am to ColoradoCock
quote:
Youre a fricking idiot if you choose to live in that area.
90% of the OT would trade where they live for where I live in Southlake, TX. The DFW suburbs in particular are top end if you are in right one (Collin county/ Southlake/ Grapevine/ Flower Mound/ Rockwall to name a few).
Great public schools, great job market, tons of entertainment options, decent food scene. The worst thing about this area is the Cowbitches football team.
Posted on 10/17/25 at 9:19 am to The Third Leg
quote:
Lol. Yeah, NTTA came in and used their money! The NTTA is the fricking government—a non profit extension of the government with no other purpose. It isn’t their money.
They sell fricking government bonds to pay for roads then you pay tolls to pay back the bond, wanker.
It is easier for you people to digest private than quasi-governmental agency. As soon as we label what it is, you frickers will ramble we already paid for it - see, which you have not in anyway.
In reality public funds and taxes are not being used to build the roads you wanker
They are funding through tolls and bonds (not a tax). The bonds are not tied to any taxes and tax payers are not legally responsible in any way. The bonds are issuesd to investors and paid back through toll revenue.
While setup by government, it acts as a private entity when funding the projects. This is in stark contrast with TxDOT which has to have funds from taxes, The State Highway Fund is the major source and that money comes from taxes. There are two distinct building entities here
TxDOT - Tax revenue (SHF)
NTTA - Bonds and toll revenue (Private)
I am not sure how plugged in you are to the Texas transportation scene, but TxDOT is in a bit of a mess that is impacting a lot of firms. Even though Texas is having some record tax revenue, budgets are off in the TxDOT world and they have really dried up on the design phase of new projects. Essentially they are just funding builds and that is really going to delay work that needs to be done across the state over the next couple years. People driving in the major cities of Texas benefit from the private financed roads. While it would be great to not pay tolls, it is not a reality we are currently in. You are always free to traverse the service roads, they are free.
Posted on 10/17/25 at 9:25 am to DarthRebel
lol. There is nothing private about it. It is a state sanctioned agency authorized to operate toll roads in North Texas. They aren’t investing money like a private enterprise would. They build a road by selling a government bond. NTTA has no private investors
Just because they don’t get funding from the general budget doesn’t mean they aren’t a government entity.
Just because they don’t get funding from the general budget doesn’t mean they aren’t a government entity.
This post was edited on 10/17/25 at 9:27 am
Posted on 10/17/25 at 9:30 am to The Third Leg
quote:
lol. There is nothing private about it. It is a state sanctioned agency authorized to operate toll roads in North Texas.
You’re right, by making these “private” entities, the governments just pass the buck of road upkeep to taxpayers paid through tolls so they can divert budget to some other unnecessary spending.
But I’ll give it to them, they’ve marketed them well to confuse idiots to think tax dollars don’t ultimately pay for them
This post was edited on 10/17/25 at 9:31 am
Posted on 10/17/25 at 9:57 am to Donkus
quote:
It will be sooner rather than later when the sprawl will have reached Tyler and that population will be added to the metro population numbers.
I live in Temple and go down to San Antonio a few times a month. there's a little bit of country driving between Belton to Salado to Jarrell to Georgetown, but once you hit that, you won't go 1 minute without driving through civilization until you get to San Antonio... maybe a tiny stretch from San Marcos to New Braunfels or Schertz.
But it's turned into almost a single metro. you used to distinctly have distance between all those towns from Austin to SA.
Posted on 10/17/25 at 10:30 am to The Third Leg
NTTA is a state-sanctioned agency authorized to operate toll roads in North Texas. The fact that it doesn’t receive funding from the general budget doesn’t mean it isn’t a government entity—I never argued otherwise. In my original post, I stated, “The toll roads being built are private and not public,” and I omitted the word funding, which may have made the point clearer.
Where the confusion arises is with the term private. Yes, NTTA issues municipal revenue bonds. These bonds are not backed by taxes; they are repaid entirely through toll revenue. Private investors purchase these bonds, and taxpayers are not responsible for repayment. In that sense, the roads are being funded with private money, not general tax dollars.
It’s also true that NTTA has no private owners—they operate under government oversight. But the bondholders are private, and individuals can purchase these bonds directly through a broker or indirectly via mutual funds or pensions.
At the end of the day, semantics can be tricky, but the essential fact remains: these roads are not built with tax money. They are funded through private investment in municipal revenue bonds.
Having lived in North Texas since the early ’80s and Collin County in the ’90s, I remember the frustration of driving through The Colony to get to DFW Airport or navigating 635 to reach IH30 or IH20 before PGBT was built. When Collin County’s major tollways—PGBT, DNT, and SRT—were constructed, the surrounding area was mostly farmland. Everything—homes, businesses, infrastructure—came afterward. It was a build it and they will come scenario, and it worked.
Funding these roads through taxes or state budgets would have required either higher taxes or cuts elsewhere. Instead, tolls act as a user fee: you pay only if you use the road. If you don’t, you contribute nothing. That seems fair—you control where your money goes.
Sure, if your company moved offices right off a tollway and you’re paying $10 daily to commute, it might sting. But the value these roads have brought is undeniable. They’ve spurred business growth, created vibrant suburbs, supported nationally ranked schools, and significantly increased home values. In fact, Collin County’s ranking as the 4th fastest-growing county in the U.S. in 2023–24 is directly tied to these tollways.
It makes me wonder—do those who dislike toll roads also oppose public transportation in major cities?
Edit - You have Mingo on your side, do not know if that is a good thing or a bad thing
Where the confusion arises is with the term private. Yes, NTTA issues municipal revenue bonds. These bonds are not backed by taxes; they are repaid entirely through toll revenue. Private investors purchase these bonds, and taxpayers are not responsible for repayment. In that sense, the roads are being funded with private money, not general tax dollars.
It’s also true that NTTA has no private owners—they operate under government oversight. But the bondholders are private, and individuals can purchase these bonds directly through a broker or indirectly via mutual funds or pensions.
At the end of the day, semantics can be tricky, but the essential fact remains: these roads are not built with tax money. They are funded through private investment in municipal revenue bonds.
Having lived in North Texas since the early ’80s and Collin County in the ’90s, I remember the frustration of driving through The Colony to get to DFW Airport or navigating 635 to reach IH30 or IH20 before PGBT was built. When Collin County’s major tollways—PGBT, DNT, and SRT—were constructed, the surrounding area was mostly farmland. Everything—homes, businesses, infrastructure—came afterward. It was a build it and they will come scenario, and it worked.
Funding these roads through taxes or state budgets would have required either higher taxes or cuts elsewhere. Instead, tolls act as a user fee: you pay only if you use the road. If you don’t, you contribute nothing. That seems fair—you control where your money goes.
Sure, if your company moved offices right off a tollway and you’re paying $10 daily to commute, it might sting. But the value these roads have brought is undeniable. They’ve spurred business growth, created vibrant suburbs, supported nationally ranked schools, and significantly increased home values. In fact, Collin County’s ranking as the 4th fastest-growing county in the U.S. in 2023–24 is directly tied to these tollways.
It makes me wonder—do those who dislike toll roads also oppose public transportation in major cities?
Edit - You have Mingo on your side, do not know if that is a good thing or a bad thing
This post was edited on 10/17/25 at 10:32 am
Posted on 10/17/25 at 10:36 am to DarthRebel
I’m not making the claim they should be free, I’m just saying they’re clearly public assets, funded by government bonds that are paid back with consumption/use taxes and fees. This is no private enterprise, there is absolutely nothing private about it. They possess authority of eminent domain via the state under whose guidance they operate.
Posted on 10/17/25 at 10:51 am to The Third Leg
So all this arguing we are doing is because I used the word "their"? Damn Internet arguments
My response was initially to Lonnie Utah's incorrect statement.
I guess next time instead of making it too simple of wording, go with -
NTTA, the North Texas Tollway Authority, is a government agency that operates toll roads, but it does not use taxpayer money for construction or maintenance. Instead, it raises money primarily through toll revenue and municipal revenue bonds. Drivers pay tolls to use the roads, and this income funds both ongoing operations and new projects. For large projects, NTTA issues revenue bonds, which are purchased by private investors—individuals, mutual funds, or pension funds—and repaid solely from toll collections. These bonds are not backed by taxes, so if toll revenue falls short, taxpayers are not responsible. In this way, even though NTTA is a public entity, the roads themselves are financed through private funds generated by users and investors, making them self-funded rather than publicly funded.
You know self-funded or using their money
My response was initially to Lonnie Utah's incorrect statement.
quote:
Are an abomination. I've already paid for the road once. Why should I pay for it again?
I guess next time instead of making it too simple of wording, go with -
NTTA, the North Texas Tollway Authority, is a government agency that operates toll roads, but it does not use taxpayer money for construction or maintenance. Instead, it raises money primarily through toll revenue and municipal revenue bonds. Drivers pay tolls to use the roads, and this income funds both ongoing operations and new projects. For large projects, NTTA issues revenue bonds, which are purchased by private investors—individuals, mutual funds, or pension funds—and repaid solely from toll collections. These bonds are not backed by taxes, so if toll revenue falls short, taxpayers are not responsible. In this way, even though NTTA is a public entity, the roads themselves are financed through private funds generated by users and investors, making them self-funded rather than publicly funded.
You know self-funded or using their money
Posted on 10/17/25 at 10:53 am to DarthRebel
quote:
NTTA, the North Texas Tollway Authority, is a government agency that operates toll roads, but it does not use taxpayer money for construction or maintenance.
They want you to believe this
And for the record, I’m fine with toll roads, but they’re absolutely funded by taxpayers, just indirectly
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