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Started By
Message
re: Greater Evil, Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia
Posted on 1/23/21 at 4:39 am to UncleLester
Posted on 1/23/21 at 4:39 am to UncleLester
quote:
UncleLester
Cringe.
0
Posted on 1/23/21 at 5:54 am to GardenDistrictTiger
quote:
Greater Evil, Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia
Biden/Harris administration.
Book it.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 6:19 am to tigerinthebueche
quote:
Biden/Harris administration.
Book it.
That is hyperbole (I hope).
This thread is like one of those sports threads arguing about 2 people that never convinces anybody.
This is history. I am more concerned about the philosophy of the 2 that is being currently espoused, but of course like communists throughout time the people promoting it lie and say they aren't.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 7:08 am to GardenDistrictTiger
The Russians. Most Germans were following commands from superior's or were using brutal tactics to persuade locals from working with the enemy etc. There were reasons behind the action, albeit brutal. I am not talking about the Holocaust btw.
The Russians were much like the Japanese in that they were just cruel down to the man.
I can't recall the name of the town but when they first pushed into Germany they came across a Bavarian town that had nuns/nurses and a women's shelter of sorts.
Some of the stores of what happened there are gut wrenching.
The Russians ripped the doors off of buildings and nailed the women and you girls to them with their legs spread, they then set them on saw horses basically and lined up, they literally raped to death these women and girls, some as young as 9.
They did this because at first they were literally ripping the women apart fighting over them.
Its goes Japanese, Russians then Germany.
The Russians were much like the Japanese in that they were just cruel down to the man.
I can't recall the name of the town but when they first pushed into Germany they came across a Bavarian town that had nuns/nurses and a women's shelter of sorts.
Some of the stores of what happened there are gut wrenching.
The Russians ripped the doors off of buildings and nailed the women and you girls to them with their legs spread, they then set them on saw horses basically and lined up, they literally raped to death these women and girls, some as young as 9.
They did this because at first they were literally ripping the women apart fighting over them.
Its goes Japanese, Russians then Germany.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 7:25 am to VooDude
quote:
Britain was too overwhelmed by Germany to give a shite about Finland.
This is where you are wrong. They gave a shite about Finland for the expressed purpose of fighting Nazi Germany.
Britain and France spent all of January and February drawing up invasion plans for Norway to help Finland. They even promised the Finns something like 50,000 troops by mid-April if they continued to resist Soviet aggression. The idea was to draw Germany into a major conflict AWAY from France to avoid a repeat of the Great War. So they would invade Norway to assist Finland while also drawing Germany into the fight by threatening to cut off the iron ore deposits it received from Sweden.
If you are truly interested in becoming less ignorant on this subject, I recommend William Trotter's book The Winter War. He does a good job of going into detail about France and Britain's plans to help Finland as well as the schemes they were coming up with to draw Germany into the conflict.
This post was edited on 1/23/21 at 7:30 am
Posted on 1/23/21 at 7:30 am to Malik Agar
quote:
The nazis sucked, but they were 100% right to try to gas every socialist out there.
Wow
Posted on 1/23/21 at 7:36 am to GardenDistrictTiger
It’s an interesting question. Western media were fellow travelers with the commies. It’s understandable that they don’t want to memorialize their former poor judgment.
The Nazis selected people for extermination based on nothing those people could control. The commies killed far more people, but the vast majority of the commie’s victims were agents in their selection for extermination. These were people who would not behave the way the commies wanted them to. So the apologists for the commies could say that they were trying to build utopia. Of course, Hitler was also trying to build utopia.
The commies covered their monstrous misdeeds with the oft-quoted, “To make an omelet you must break a few eggs.” This reduction of human deaths to “breaking eggs” was repulsive enough, but it took George Orwell to point out the worst when he retorted, “OK, but where’s the omelet?”
The Nazis selected people for extermination based on nothing those people could control. The commies killed far more people, but the vast majority of the commie’s victims were agents in their selection for extermination. These were people who would not behave the way the commies wanted them to. So the apologists for the commies could say that they were trying to build utopia. Of course, Hitler was also trying to build utopia.
The commies covered their monstrous misdeeds with the oft-quoted, “To make an omelet you must break a few eggs.” This reduction of human deaths to “breaking eggs” was repulsive enough, but it took George Orwell to point out the worst when he retorted, “OK, but where’s the omelet?”
Posted on 1/23/21 at 7:37 am to GardenDistrictTiger
As bad as he was, Hitler probably saved Western Europe and maybe the world from Communism. The official policy of Soviet Russia under Stalin was to spread the revolution by military conquest. Stalin was going to have a go at Europe eventually, but probably sooner than later and he would have been starting in East Prussia with a fresh brand new army. But because Hitler attacked him and the long war in the east, the Russians were more or less at the end of their rope in the spring of 1945 as well. They had pretty much exhausted their manpower and logistics as well. Soviet Russia never really recovered.
As to which one was more evil, that’s a tough call. But I guarantee you that as an average citizen, anyone would have much rather have lived in NAZI Germany of the late 1930s than Soviet Russia of the same time period.
As to which one was more evil, that’s a tough call. But I guarantee you that as an average citizen, anyone would have much rather have lived in NAZI Germany of the late 1930s than Soviet Russia of the same time period.
This post was edited on 1/23/21 at 7:39 am
Posted on 1/23/21 at 7:39 am to GardenDistrictTiger
If the Germans weren't so hell bent on open genocide it would be a harder choice. The soviets had a long reign of terror but Germany was faster and brighter.
Had Nazi Germany been our cold War foe they would have been much scarier.
So even though Stalin had a higher body count, I think Nazi Germany easily wins this.
Had Nazi Germany been our cold War foe they would have been much scarier.
So even though Stalin had a higher body count, I think Nazi Germany easily wins this.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 7:42 am to GardenDistrictTiger
USSR
Not particularly close
Not particularly close
Posted on 1/23/21 at 7:43 am to GardenDistrictTiger
Ultra Liberalist USA
Posted on 1/23/21 at 7:44 am to Cossatotjoe
quote:
But I guarantee you that as an average citizen, anyone would have much rather have lived in NAZI Germany of the late 1930s than Soviet Russia of the same time period.
As a blue eyed Aryan male, sure I'd be fine there. But german rule was deadly for many people and their territory expanded quickly to conquer other nations. USSR's territory didn't change much not counting the Iron Curtain puppets.
Germany looked to take over the world and remove non Aryans from their land. Though it has been speculated that this would have stopped after conquest of Europe.
Where would I rather live? Nazi Germany. But that doesn't make it less evil.
This post was edited on 1/23/21 at 8:02 am
Posted on 1/23/21 at 7:48 am to chew4219
Didn’t the Japanese kill the most in WW2?
Upwards of 10 million?
Upwards of 10 million?
Posted on 1/23/21 at 7:57 am to Napoleon
quote:
As a blue eyed Aryan male, sure I'd be fine there. But german rule was deadly for many people and their territory expanded quickly to conquer other nations. USSR's territory didn't change much not counting the Iron Curtain puppets.
Germany looked to take over the world and remove non Arkansas from their land. Though it has been speculated that this would have stopped after conquest of Europe.
Where would I rather live? Nazi Germany. But that doesn't make it less evil.
The Soviet’s had already invaded Europe in 1922. They had fomented violent revolutions all over Europe and the east. They had taken Finland and the Baltics. They had invaded Poland and annexed part of Romania. They had moved aggressively in the central Asian states. They had waged a quick military campaign in Manchuria. At home the regime had outright liquidated millions. It had sent millions to Siberia. It had aggressively persecuted minorities. It had deliberately starved to death at least seven million Ukrainians. AND AND AND it had provided NAZI Germany with financial aid, massive amounts of raw materials, military equipment, and training areas so that Germany could prepare itself in violation of the Versailles Treaty.
When Germany invaded Western Europe it did so in tanks developed and tested in Russia, manned by crews and officers who had been trained in Russia, and burning gasoline made from Russian oil. Without Soviet aid, Hitler could never have done what he did. Stalin, who has never been accused of being a dummy, made the rearmament of Germany possible and backed Hitler’s invasion of Western Europe. The question that’s been ignored for 80 years in the west is “why?”
This post was edited on 1/23/21 at 8:00 am
Posted on 1/23/21 at 8:21 am to GardenDistrictTiger
American far left Democrats for the win
Posted on 1/23/21 at 8:23 am to Napoleon
quote:
So even though Stalin had a higher body count, I think Nazi Germany easily wins this.
quote:
Napoleon
I’m shocked.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 8:28 am to Mo Jeaux
Luckily the Nazi's were only around for 12 years or so. If they had the longevity of the Soviets or Mao, their kill count would've been comparable if not more.
I think they were both awful awful regimes but we never really got to see the atrocities that the Nazis could enact when they weren't constantly waging war.
I think they were both awful awful regimes but we never really got to see the atrocities that the Nazis could enact when they weren't constantly waging war.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 8:28 am to HailHailtoMichigan!
What/who are you quoting? There is no link. I’d like to read more.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 9:02 am to Cossatotjoe
quote:
As bad as he was, Hitler probably saved Western Europe and maybe the world from Communism. The official policy of Soviet Russia under Stalin was to spread the revolution by military conquest. Stalin was going to have a go at Europe eventually, but probably sooner than later and he would have been starting in East Prussia with a fresh brand new army. But because Hitler attacked him and the long war in the east, the Russians were more or less at the end of their rope in the spring of 1945 as well. They had pretty much exhausted their manpower and logistics as well. Soviet Russia never really recovered.
As to which one was more evil, that’s a tough call. But I guarantee you that as an average citizen, anyone would have much rather have lived in NAZI Germany of the late 1930s than Soviet Russia of the same time period.
You do realize the Soviet Union was our ally back in WWII? Without their efforts on the Eastern Front the allies probably would have fallen before the US got involved.
Posted on 1/23/21 at 9:03 am to Cossatotjoe
quote:
Hitler probably saved Western Europe and maybe the world from Communism. The official policy of Soviet Russia under Stalin was to spread the revolution by military conquest. Stalin was going to have a go at Europe eventually, but probably sooner than later and he would have been starting in East Prussia with a fresh brand new army. But because Hitler attacked him and the long war in the east, the Russians were more or less at the end of their rope in the spring of 1945 as well. They had pretty much exhausted their manpower and logistics as well. Soviet Russia never really recovered.
While I agree with you that Russia wanted to do as you say, they would have been powerless to do so. It was only due to being armed and supplied by the USA that they were able to fight the Nazis. Even given time they would not have been able to build the manufacturing capability with that socialistic system.
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