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Message
re: Tariff Time
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:29 pm to BuckyCheese
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:29 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
oh boo hoo. Progfilth will have to pay more for their avocado toast.
Lolz. You think the state of Texas is just progfilth eating avocado toasts….
I reject this and will not have anyone undermine the importance of guacamole!
0
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:30 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
test thst has not happened with solar panels. We still buy them almost exclusively from China. If tariffs work… why haven’t they worked?
Well, in terms of domestic production, you have the absence of a free market with government subsidies and incentives to prop up a market, that is largely run by political friends of DC elites. It's called crony capitalism. It's also a market that for some reason is the subject of massive bankruptcies. And those 2 things are often linked.
So, why can't corrupt American companies compete with China in a market filled with corruption?
This is a market that government has been dying to control and implement since Obama's tenure. Again, government interference to prop up a less than stable market kinds of skews things, don't you think?
quote:
The tariffs that have been in place since 2018.
Cool. Again, i don't follow the solar industry. I would say it's a pretty volatile industry given that
I'd also wager that it's a niche market that is easily replaced with other means of energy.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:30 pm to BugAC
quote:
They were a proxy of the Soviet Union, and we were very close to nukes being launched. This isn't even up for debate. It's facts.
No, it isn't. That was simply western propaganda. Khrushchev only wanted the US to remove our missiles from Turkey - which is exactly what he got. The problem is that the American press couldn't exactly report it that way. The way you know this is because Khrushchev never mobilized his armed forces. He was manipulating a young, inexperienced drug addict into doing his bidding. JFK never had a chance against Khrushchev.
Americans generally don't realize that we came a LOT closer to nuclear war with the USSR in 1983, when Andropov DID mobilize his armed forces in response to AbleArcher83, than we did in 1962.
quote:
most of the against is because of their past.
Their past with us is nowhere near as bad as Communist China's past with us.
No one has yet adequately answered my question of why we trade with China but not Cuba.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:32 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:
No, it isn't. That was simply western propaganda. Khrushchev only wanted the US to remove our missiles from Turkey - which is exactly what he got. The problem is that the American press couldn't exactly report it that way. The way you know this is because Khrushchev never mobilized his armed forces. He was manipulating a young, inexperienced drug addict into doing his bidding. JFK never had a chance against Khrushchev.
It really doesn't matter what the reasoning is. The government's stance on Cuba, whether rightly or wrongly, is why we don't trade with Cuba.
Again, i don't really have a dog in the fight in terms of wanting/not wanting trade with Cuba.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:33 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
oh boo hoo. Progfilth will have to pay more for their avocado toast.
Or cheap junk from China.
Mexico and Canada will cave pretty quick.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:34 pm to BugAC
Your oil prices will go up in the case of Canada. We import 4 million or so barrels a day. 17% of our produce comes from Mexico . So your food will cost more. For starters. There's a lot of cross border trade on top of that as well.
You keep thinking that tariffs will work when the recent evidence shows that they really don't have the desired effect. US slapped steel tariffs a while back. The net result was negative for US workers as steel jobs in the US actually decreased by 4000 jobs.
You're not protecting , nor are you creating jobs.
You keep thinking that tariffs will work when the recent evidence shows that they really don't have the desired effect. US slapped steel tariffs a while back. The net result was negative for US workers as steel jobs in the US actually decreased by 4000 jobs.
You're not protecting , nor are you creating jobs.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:37 pm to troyt37
quote:
Milton Friedman is no doubt brilliant, and I have sought his knowledge about many things. What Friedman has never had to deal with, however, is bad actor countries who use tariffs, to stifle American products and manufactured goods from coming into their countries.
Yes, he does. Friedman wrote about it extensively, and it's disingenuous to claim that "things are different now". From Friedman (when Japan was our trade whipping boy):
"Suppose Japan were incredibly successful in her alleged attempt to restrict imports into Japan, managing to dispense with them entirely. Suppose that Japan were incredibly successful in her alleged attempts to push exports to the U.S., managing to sell us large quantities of assorted goods. What would Japan do with the dollars she received for her exports? Take crisp greenbacks back to Tokyo to stash in the vaults of the Bank of Japan? Let deposits at U.S. banks pile up? Jolly for us. Can you think of a better deal than our getting fine textiles, shiny cars, and sophisticated TV sets for a bale of green printed paper? Or for some entries on the books of banks? If the Japanese would only be wiling to keep on doing that, we can provide all the green paper they will take.
The Japanese might accumulate, as they have been doing, a moderate sum in greenbacks or dollar deposits or dollar securities as a reserve for possible future needs. But they are too smart to do so indefinitely. Very soon Japan would take steps either to reduce exports or to use the dollars to buy imports (by changes in trade restrictions, or in the internal price level, or in the exchange rate between the yen and the dollar). We would again be under the unfortunate necessity of having to pay in real goods for real goods.
However, we only increase the hurt to us—and also to them—by imposing additional restrictions in our turn. The wise course for us is precisely the opposite—to move unilaterally toward free trade. If they still choose to impose restrictions, that is too bad but at least we have not added insult to injury.
This is clearly the right course of action on economic grounds. But it is also the only course of action that is in keeping with our political position in the world. We are a great nation, the leader of the free world. Yet we squander our political power to appease the textile industry in the Carolinas! We should instead be setting a standard for the world by practicing the freedom of competition, of trade, and of enterprise that we preach."
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 3:49 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:41 pm to Green Chili Tiger
quote:
25% on Canada and Mexico
Neighborly upcharge
Escorting millions of illegals, including tens of thousands of violent criminals, through their country so that they can ruin ours isn't very neighborly.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:41 pm to BugAC
quote:Huh? What are you rambling about. It takes very little regulatory interaction to build solar panels. It's bascially the same as computer chip manufacturing (another industry Trump wants to tariff).
Well, in terms of domestic production, you have the absence of a free market with government subsidies and incentives to prop up a market, that is largely run by political friends of DC elites. It's called crony capitalism. It's also a market that for some reason is the subject of massive bankruptcies. And those 2 things are often linked.
quote:Do you follow the coffee and avacodo industires?
Cool. Again, i don't follow the solar industry.
quote:What difference does that make? We've had a 30% tariff since 2018. Biden raised it to 50%. Yet... we still buy them from the same place. The only manufacturer I know of that started a (small token) mfg facility in 2019, shut it down after about a year and is now... bankrupt. Why would such a thing happen? Why haven't we seen what you claim happens when tariffs are applied?
I would say it's a pretty volatile industry given that I'd also wager that it's a niche market
quote:
I'd also wager that it's a niche market that is easily replaced with other means of energy.
This post was edited on 1/31/25 at 3:43 pm
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:42 pm to KiwiHead
quote:Yes, he does.
You live in an economic fantasy land .
His simpleminded examples trying to prove tariffs don't result in inflation hurt my brain just reading them.
Two undisputed big-picture facts about tariff wars:
1) Tariffs protect inefficient production.
and,
2) Tariffs protect inefficient production.
When production inefficiencies are encouraged, the end results are higher costs for manufactured goods. Higher costs for manufactured goods contribute to inflation and lower living standards.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:44 pm to TigersHuskers
quote:
Melt cuck.
Tariffs are good for the American worker and American economy.
I don't disagree with this statement, but there will be some growing pains. It will take some time and some dealing with short term price increases to get thru it. Unless the other countries just cave, which some might. In the long term, it should make American products more competitive and hopefully allow us to produce a few things again. NAFTA killed pretty much every small factory and hurt our overall economy so badly while allowing Wall Street to profit greatly. Some of us participated in that Wall Street growth, but it wasn't good for a lot of little people.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 3:59 pm to LSURussian
The fantasy is that the tariffs especially on raw goods like produce, lumber and oil will somehow spur Americans to step into the breach. In these case it just will not happen. We import 14-15 billion dollars of fruits and vegetables from Mexico because our demand requires it.
Domestic producers are selling all of their product.
In terms of oil, The Canadians fill in the gap for the US in that a lot of oil is not right for our refineries. So we sell the other oil and use Canada to make it up with it's heavier crude. It's a win for the US consumer....and refiners and the oil men in Texas and LA and CA couldn't give a shite less.
.
Domestic producers are selling all of their product.
In terms of oil, The Canadians fill in the gap for the US in that a lot of oil is not right for our refineries. So we sell the other oil and use Canada to make it up with it's heavier crude. It's a win for the US consumer....and refiners and the oil men in Texas and LA and CA couldn't give a shite less.
.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:09 pm to KiwiHead
I love how you clowns continually deflect from the true issue here; Canada/Mexico stopping people and drugs from flowing through their country into ours.
This is about forcing our neighbors into a pro US position. It's not about economics and these tariffs will not be in place for long unless Canada/Mexico continue to assist in the damaging of this country.
This is about forcing our neighbors into a pro US position. It's not about economics and these tariffs will not be in place for long unless Canada/Mexico continue to assist in the damaging of this country.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:13 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
This is about forcing our neighbors into a pro US position. It's not about economics and these tariffs will not be in place for long unless Canada/Mexico continue to assist in the damaging of this country.
And that's fine. That is a rational, cogent argument.
What's not a rational, cogent argument is to assert that tariffs are some sort of economic panacea. In strictly ECONOMIC terms, tariffs are bad policy.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:16 pm to BugAC
quote:
Again, i don't really have a dog in the fight in terms of wanting/not wanting trade with Cuba.
It's not just trade with Cuba for me, I just want to know why we engage in the hypocrisy of trading with one communist country but not another. More specifically, why this hypocrisy isn't pointed out and addressed.
I would rather trade with Canada than either China OR Cuba. I don't understand why Trump is treating a communist country, who has actually mobilized troops against us in the past, and who has unleashed an engineered virus on us, and who engages in unfair trading practices against us better than our largest trading partner, and neighbor in Canada.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:20 pm to DrrTiger
quote:
I don’t seem to remember the Haitian missile crisis being a thing. Maybe that’s why.
I guess you also don't remember when the Communist Chinese sent 1,000,000 soldiers against us and slaughtered US Marines at the Chosin Reservoir.
The Chinese attacked us and killed our soldiers. The Cubans were mere pawns in the negotiations to remove NATO missiles from within range of the USSR.
You Communist Chinese apologists are worse than the Russian apologists.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:20 pm to Ten Bears
quote:
In strictly ECONOMIC terms, tariffs are bad policy.
Only if you don't support the American workers they are. In the long run they are great.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:22 pm to TigersHuskers
It should be 25% on China and 10% to our neighbors imo
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:23 pm to deltaland
The tariffs on Mexico abd Canada won't last long. Especially Canada. They'll cave first. Trudeau is so weak.
Posted on 1/31/25 at 4:25 pm to TigersHuskers
quote:
The tariffs on Mexico abd Canada won't last long. Especially Canada. They'll cave first. Trudeau is so weak.
Yeah Canada literally has nothing that we don’t or need. I hope they suffer good for having Trudeau.
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