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re: When was the last time a libertarian got anything accomplished?
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:11 am to AllbyMyRelf
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:11 am to AllbyMyRelf
I also believe in libertarianism for thee, absolutism for me.
If I was in charge, I would want infinite power to bend government to my will. Since I am not in power, I want as much liberty as possible for myself so I can oppose the government authority which I do not wield.
If I was in charge, I would want infinite power to bend government to my will. Since I am not in power, I want as much liberty as possible for myself so I can oppose the government authority which I do not wield.
This post was edited on 2/3/26 at 11:18 am
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Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:11 am to AllbyMyRelf
So I'm clear, you're talking about pragmatism over intellectual purity, correct?
I agree completely with that, but that doesn't mean you become a "conservative". It means moving the ball just a bit more in your favor towards your principles, just not as fast as we'd all like.
I agree completely with that, but that doesn't mean you become a "conservative". It means moving the ball just a bit more in your favor towards your principles, just not as fast as we'd all like.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:13 am to burger bearcat
The Founding Fathers were libertarians. It's described in Albion's Seed about 100 times. All political arguement is between the philosophies of libertarianism and collectivism.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:14 am to kingbob
quote:
In my opinion, the ideal level of government authority is laid out in a strict constitution interpretation of Article 1, Section 8 of the United States Constitution. If it ain’t mentioned there, the federal government shouldn’t be doing it.
I'd moonwalk around my neighborhood for a month straight if that happened.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:19 am to stuntman
In the first instance (recognizing things aren’t getting done) yes, it’s pragmatism vs purity.
In the second instance, no, it’s a shift in normative belief. The libertarian believes that freedom is the chief end and that government’s role, if any, is to protect and promote that freedom and accompanying rights.
However, people have shifts in what they view as the chief end. Some do not identify maximum liberty with maximum human flourishing. For a conservative, the chief end is the restraint of evil and the promotion of human flourishing.
An example would be something like heroin trafficking. A pure libertarian is fine with this. It’s just contract—people choosing for themselves what they want to do/ buy, so long as they don’t hurt other people. Conservatives usually do not view this as promoting human flourishing. They typically see this as evil to be restrained.
In this way, conservatives are not being pragmatic, they’re being consistent within a different framework.
Conservatives and libertarians are often confused with each other (Rand Paul for example) because they have overlapping policy positions, but they reach these positions by different modes.
In the second instance, no, it’s a shift in normative belief. The libertarian believes that freedom is the chief end and that government’s role, if any, is to protect and promote that freedom and accompanying rights.
However, people have shifts in what they view as the chief end. Some do not identify maximum liberty with maximum human flourishing. For a conservative, the chief end is the restraint of evil and the promotion of human flourishing.
An example would be something like heroin trafficking. A pure libertarian is fine with this. It’s just contract—people choosing for themselves what they want to do/ buy, so long as they don’t hurt other people. Conservatives usually do not view this as promoting human flourishing. They typically see this as evil to be restrained.
In this way, conservatives are not being pragmatic, they’re being consistent within a different framework.
Conservatives and libertarians are often confused with each other (Rand Paul for example) because they have overlapping policy positions, but they reach these positions by different modes.
This post was edited on 2/3/26 at 11:21 am
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:20 am to burger bearcat
Ron Paul
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:20 am to Zach
quote:
The Founding Fathers were libertarians. It's described in Albion's Seed about 100 times. All political arguement is between the philosophies of libertarianism and collectivism.
Their moral foundation was Christian too. This can’t be discounted because the early founders could argue and implement policies based in the same moral frame.
This post was edited on 2/3/26 at 11:22 am
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:21 am to Zach
quote:
The Founding Fathers were libertarians.
Some were, many were not.
Adams, Burr, Jay, and Hamilton were all decidedly NOT anything remotely resembling libertarians.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:33 am to sgallo3
quote:
Imagine seeing it as a bad thing that people vote for their convictions rather than blind loyalty.
Again, I love the idea of this. However it is unrealistic. I prefer to live and operate in reality not in make believe land.
Here’s the uncomfortable truth libertarians cannot accept. In order to actually make a society where libertarianism can be practiced at scale, it would require a certain level of heavy handed authoritarianism, hopefully of a benevolent flavor if possible.
But there simply is not any other practical way towards their political vision without doing the a strong and effective government paving the way.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:35 am to Zach
quote:
The Founding Fathers were libertarians. It's described in Albion's Seed about 100 times. All political arguement is between the philosophies of libertarianism and collectivism.
Not exactly, not in anyway that we see libertarianism today.
But even if they were, they also had a government that was voted by land owning white men, and very weak federal government with a much stronger state and local government.
None of those ideas can work or be implemented with the demographic makeup of the electorate today
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:37 am to burger bearcat
The problem with most libertarians is they are ideologically purists and will vote no on anything that isn’t 100% what they like
That doesn’t work in our system which requires compromise. And you cannot have a libertarian dictator because the idea of dictator goes against their ideology.
So basically they’re stuck with being irrelevant blowhards who accomplish nothing of note
That doesn’t work in our system which requires compromise. And you cannot have a libertarian dictator because the idea of dictator goes against their ideology.
So basically they’re stuck with being irrelevant blowhards who accomplish nothing of note
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:38 am to burger bearcat
quote:
burger bearcat
Member since Oct 2020
I remember when libertarianism was the predominate thought on this board. Now if you aren't 100% MAGA you are a Dem. Crazy how times change.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 11:51 am to GumboPot
quote:
A libertarian getting something done, that forced a bill passage 427-1 in the House and 100-0 in the Senate and signed by the president that currently has a small faction on this board with their hair on fire.
This is awesome. What benefit can I expect for my family with the passage of this bill?
Lower taxes? More individual freedom? Fewer government regulations? Lower inflation?
I can't wait to see how my personal and professional life will improve thanks to this amazing bill.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 12:01 pm to Zach
quote:No place for that kind of thinking in MAGA’s party!
The Founding Fathers were libertarians. It's described in Albion's Seed about 100 times.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 12:02 pm to deltaland
quote:Exactly. We need more good republicans willing to compromise and capitulate.
The problem with most libertarians is they are ideologically purists and will vote no on anything that isn’t 100% what they like
Posted on 2/3/26 at 12:05 pm to BarnHater
quote:
Thankfully Trump doesn’t need them. They are unloyal pieces of filth.
Trump needed JE pretty bad, which i guess why he was loyal to him according to your logic
Posted on 2/3/26 at 12:05 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
voted by land owning white men, and very weak federal government with a much stronger state and local government.
Ah, the power started with the individual, then the town, then the state and last the very weak federal govt. That's libertarianism.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 12:13 pm to burger bearcat
I struggle on libertarian views on drugs. I think that’s one of my big hangups on their overall platform.
While I'll admit that natural selection will certainly take its course if you just let the war against drugs go, these are people man. Some of them choose the life, but some of them just make a mistake and end up lifelong addicts.
I believe a libertarian view on decriminalization of drug use would have to be predicated by a total stoppage of availability of illegal narcotics in the continental US, and that's obviously just not possible.
While I'll admit that natural selection will certainly take its course if you just let the war against drugs go, these are people man. Some of them choose the life, but some of them just make a mistake and end up lifelong addicts.
I believe a libertarian view on decriminalization of drug use would have to be predicated by a total stoppage of availability of illegal narcotics in the continental US, and that's obviously just not possible.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 12:34 pm to deltaland
quote:
That doesn’t work in our system which requires compromise
Yet you will most likely sit here and complain about a myriad of reasons you hate government. The slow march to Marxism, the burden of taxation, etc.
All came from compromise. I would rather someone stand for what they believe in.
Posted on 2/3/26 at 12:57 pm to UtahCajun
quote:
Explain just how governmental growth protects freedoms.
Take as much time and space as you need.
When it came to technocrats censoring the frick out of anyone who wasn’t left, any intervention was frowned upon by libertarians because they didn’t want “government meddling” in how they moderate.
They also don’t do fricking shite to domineering corporations who buy our entire political landscape because of muh “free market”.
They also don’t give a frick about the border.
The fundamental purpose of government, particularly within democratic frameworks like the U.S. Constitution is to protect individual liberties and secure rights. Where do you see me saying the government needs to get bigger to do that? Sounds like a typical libertarian plug for any argument like Epstein for Democrats.
frick libertarians. It’s just a glorified virtue signal with no consistency to its core values.
This post was edited on 2/3/26 at 12:59 pm
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