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Message
tAthletic NBA Tiers l A must read for Zion haters
Posted on 8/17/23 at 7:10 am
Posted on 8/17/23 at 7:10 am
LINK
BI is in tier 4 and Zion is currently in 3, due to injuries. The quoted statement above is why Zion is a must if we have any desire to potentially win a title. Apex Zion is in that tier 1 and BI will never be able to come close. I hope we keep both of them, but trading Zion and leaving the team to being led by BI just isn't going to cut it, unless we get generational lottery-draft luck for the 4th time in 20 years (which ain't bloody likely).
quote:
To put it another way, building a team around a Tier 2 guy, as opposed to someone in the rarefied air of Tier 1, requires an additional All-Star level supporting player. This is doable, and teams have done it — the most recent title-winning examples would be the 2014 Spurs and 2011 Mavericks. I didn’t create tiers for those seasons, but I’m fairly confident the late-career versions of Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki on those two teams were high Tier 2 rather than Tier 1 players in the league at the time.
Even if it’s harder to do so, then, Tier 2 becomes the area of the league where we can see a shift from players you can build with to those you build around. It’s not a strict binary: there might be a line somewhere between Tier 2C and Tier 2B.
BI is in tier 4 and Zion is currently in 3, due to injuries. The quoted statement above is why Zion is a must if we have any desire to potentially win a title. Apex Zion is in that tier 1 and BI will never be able to come close. I hope we keep both of them, but trading Zion and leaving the team to being led by BI just isn't going to cut it, unless we get generational lottery-draft luck for the 4th time in 20 years (which ain't bloody likely).
8
Posted on 8/17/23 at 7:25 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
but trading Zion and leaving the team to being led by BI just isn't going to cut it, unless we get generational lottery-draft luck for the 4th time in 20 years (which ain't bloody likely).
Its lazy to use historical trends to dictate how roster construction should be completed. I am of the opinion that 8-10 above average players that compliment each other should be a solid playoff team and, given the right circumstances, contend for a title. You don't have to have a star or Superstar.
It's weird that we talk about Championships when we don't even make the playoffs. I just want to be a top 5 or 6 seed for a few years before I start thinking we are winning it all. We are trying to take shortcuts, have for years. Instead of building a culture..
Posted on 8/17/23 at 7:38 am to brmark70816
you not only need a superstar to compete, but you need one that the refs recognize as a superstar. To win tight playoff games, you need your stars to get superstar calls. BI and Zion still get foul calls like rookies or jobbers.
Look at James Harden. He is a great scorer, but he probably gets 10-12 bullshite foul shots per game.
Look at James Harden. He is a great scorer, but he probably gets 10-12 bullshite foul shots per game.
Posted on 8/17/23 at 7:40 am to SlowFlowPro
Any reasonable Pelicans fan should agree that current peak Zion is certainly in the top 10 to 25 players in the league with the potential for top 5 or 10. The issue is his lack of availability, suspected immaturity, and the unknown future of achieving his potential. There is also his unique size, physical attributes and potential longevity.
I don't think it is reasonable to trade him at a low point in his value. I wouldn't trade him now.
I wouldn't trade him if he is playing well and the Pels are in strong playoff contention.
But, if he is playing well, the Pels are struggling, and some extremely incredible trade offer were put in front of Griffin, a trade should be given consideration.
At any time, if someone is willing to give you an extreme overvaluation for an asset, you have to at least consider making the deal.
I don't think it is reasonable to trade him at a low point in his value. I wouldn't trade him now.
I wouldn't trade him if he is playing well and the Pels are in strong playoff contention.
But, if he is playing well, the Pels are struggling, and some extremely incredible trade offer were put in front of Griffin, a trade should be given consideration.
At any time, if someone is willing to give you an extreme overvaluation for an asset, you have to at least consider making the deal.
Posted on 8/17/23 at 8:04 am to SlowFlowPro
Since I’m not paying money to read this, who do they consider tier 1 and 2?
Posted on 8/17/23 at 8:19 am to SlowFlowPro
You read articles and form your trash opinions.
Most watch games, playoffs, and check stats, and form player opinions.
Go away.
Most watch games, playoffs, and check stats, and form player opinions.
Go away.
Posted on 8/17/23 at 8:53 am to TeddyPadillac
They haven't announced tier 1
Tier 2
2A
LeBron James
2A
Kawhi Leonard
2A
Jimmy Butler
2A
Jayson Tatum
2A
Devin Booker
2B
Anthony Davis
2B
Ja Morant
2B
Damian Lillard
2C
James Harden
2C
Paul George
2C
Jamal Murray
2C
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Tier 2
2A
LeBron James
2A
Kawhi Leonard
2A
Jimmy Butler
2A
Jayson Tatum
2A
Devin Booker
2B
Anthony Davis
2B
Ja Morant
2B
Damian Lillard
2C
James Harden
2C
Paul George
2C
Jamal Murray
2C
Shai Gilgeous-Alexander
Posted on 8/17/23 at 11:53 am to whatiknowsofar
Missing from tier 2 that I assume are above in tier 1 is Curry, Durant, Doncic, Giannis, Embiid, and Joker
Posted on 8/17/23 at 12:07 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:I'd assume the vast majority of Pels fans would know this general take to be the case.
The quoted statement above is why Zion is a must if we have any desire to potentially win a title. Apex Zion is in that tier 1 and BI will never be able to come close.
This post was edited on 8/17/23 at 12:55 pm
Posted on 8/17/23 at 12:15 pm to paulbeasy
quote:
player opinions
The least useful of all.
Players are fricking dumb.
Posted on 8/17/23 at 12:46 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
To put it another way, building a team around a Tier 2 guy, as opposed to someone in the rarefied air of Tier 1, requires an additional All-Star level supporting player. This is doable, and teams have done it — the most recent title-winning examples would be the 2014 Spurs and 2011 Mavericks. I didn’t create tiers for those seasons, but I’m fairly confident the late-career versions of Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki on those two teams were high Tier 2 rather than Tier 1 players in the league at the time.
I know this isn’t the point of your thread, but have to disagree with the article on that. Dirk was 31 years old and averaged 27.7 and 8.1 in the playoffs while shooting .488/.460/.941.
He beat Kobe/Gasol/Bynum/Odom, Durant/Westbrook/Harden, and Lebron/Wade/Bosh in the playoffs.
Dirk was tier 1 when he won his title.
Posted on 8/17/23 at 12:58 pm to paulbeasy
quote:
You read articles and form your trash opinions. Most watch games, playoffs, and check stats, and form player opinions. Go away.
What a dumb series of statements. What do you think the articles he’s reading are based on?
Posted on 8/17/23 at 1:05 pm to PNG Futbol
quote:
Any reasonable Pelicans fan should agree that current peak Zion is certainly in the top 10 to 25 players in the league with the potential for top 5 or 10. The issue is his lack of availability, suspected immaturity, and the unknown future of achieving his potential. There is also his unique size, physical attributes and potential longevity.
When Zion plays, he is arguably a top 5 player. He literally can’t be stopped offensively and he hasn’t even reached his prime yet. The problem is that he doesn’t play enough.
Posted on 8/17/23 at 1:07 pm to spaghettioeauxs
Bingo.
Those will be the tier 1 guys and those are the guys who have won titles lately(outside of Luka and Embiid, who are MVP caliber).
Those will be the tier 1 guys and those are the guys who have won titles lately(outside of Luka and Embiid, who are MVP caliber).
Posted on 8/17/23 at 1:20 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
BI will never be able to come close.
Refuse to believe this. After watching him in the playoffs he has another level that he unlocks when the spotlight is huge. He'll never be a top 15 player, but he can absolutely be in that 20-25 range.
Posted on 8/17/23 at 1:23 pm to brmark70816
quote:
Its lazy to use historical trends to dictate how roster construction should be completed. I am of the opinion that 8-10 above average players that compliment each other should be a solid playoff team and, given the right circumstances, contend for a title. You don't have to have a star or Superstar.
I have read some bad takes from you before but this might be your worst. Can you please give me one example of this outside of the 2004 Detroit Pistons when Kobe and Shaq were untenable? If you don't look at the history of the league what exactly do you look at?? You absolutely HAVE to have one of "those" guys. The two he mentions as the outliers were led by Duncan and Dirk, two top 20 players of all time. If they weren't tier 1 at the time, they absolutely were for the majority of their career.
Posted on 8/17/23 at 2:11 pm to brmark70816
quote:This has happened arguably once in the last 50 years, while teams with at least 1 star or more have won it the other 49 times.
Its lazy to use historical trends to dictate how roster construction should be completed. I am of the opinion that 8-10 above average players that compliment each other should be a solid playoff team and, given the right circumstances, contend for a title. You don't have to have a star or Superstar.
Stars win titles, they always have. What reason do you have to believe otherwise?
And why would you think the whole history of the NBA is not an important factor here?
This post was edited on 8/17/23 at 2:13 pm
Posted on 8/17/23 at 7:28 pm to DallasTiger45
quote:
What a dumb series of statements. What do you think the articles he’s reading are based on?
Often by sports writers with shitty takes that fit an agenda. Some are good and some are complete trash.
Posted on 8/17/23 at 8:40 pm to SlowFlowPro
We know this. BI can’t carry the team alone. We saw that in the play in last year. Zion is the gamble that this organization has to take.
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