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Message
1
Posted on 9/28/17 at 8:04 pm to airfernando
quote:
How does anyone rectify that with the belief of God giving us the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
Because we aren't robots. God allowed Adam and Eve to choose to disobey his commands in the Garden of Eden. Later, Christ himself refused Satan's temptations to demonstrate the concept that faith in him can only come about via free will. A great literary example of this can be found in "The Grand Inquisitor", which is a chapter within Fyodor Dostoevsky's "The Brothers Karamazov."
This post was edited on 9/29/17 at 7:21 am
Posted on 9/28/17 at 8:05 pm to airfernando
quote:
Then Jefferson should have had the integrity and decency not to concede on an issue so important. The bottom line is that our founding fathers were gigantic hypocrites at best, evil at worst.
Jefferson didn't have much of a say at that point. His was one of vote of many.
Sitting in judgement of these extraordinary men, while being incredibly ignorant regarding the actual history of the event, makes you lool even worse. Most of these men, especially Jefferson, initiated the first steps to dismantle the Transatlantic Slave Trade - an institition that had lasted over 150 years and affected nearly every corner of the Earth. To believe that the could wave a wand and make it disappear over night is ludacris.
Posted on 9/28/17 at 8:09 pm to Antonio Moss
Fortunately for everyone, he understood nuance more than he was worried about being labeled a hypocrite by snot nosed beneficiaries of his philosophical underpinnings 230 years later.
Posted on 9/28/17 at 8:17 pm to airfernando
quote:
The bottom line is that our founding fathers were gigantic hypocrites at best, evil at worst. That doesn't mean I don't appreciated what they did in founding this country
I'm trying to figure out what your angle is here
Posted on 9/28/17 at 8:29 pm to Y.A. Tittle
quote:Well and this thread is a perfect example of why it's getting worse. Obviously the government didn't give me the ability to express myself; whether the it was given by God or through evolution, that was an ability inherent.
It's sad seeing the ignorance that gets perpetuated on this and even sadder realizing it's only getting worse - much worse
Maybe Todd knows it's not provided by government but made a mistake. Maybe it's a misunderstanding. Or maybe he thinks the rights themselves are the only thing that actually matters (not just matters most), and doesn't fully comprehending why that subtle distinction is important. Or maybe he is using prog filth reasoning and see the government as some almighty being, and came to this comment conclusion knowing that was not the intent of the document.
Obviously we can't correct Todd, but if every time we hear that, we just automatically assume it's based on a filthy perspective, that cannot be corrected through a thoughtful and evidence based discussion, then those that could have changed their view, will instead only continue to be ignorant. So they're not prog filth, but they share the belief because it was gratifying to insult them instead of teaching them.
So the people, like the OP, who purport to gave a problem with an exteme view on the other side, like the prog filth, seem to actually want the prog filth exist, and when the truly prog filth aren't available, they will find a way to attain that gratification, whether by ensuring someone remains ignorant like the prog filth when convenient or find something to put someone in that group.
CptBengal may be right when he calls me an idiot, but even with that idiocy I am able to see that whether he's a genius or an idiot like myself, his toxicity makes things a lot more idiotic.
This post was edited on 9/28/17 at 8:32 pm
Posted on 9/28/17 at 8:30 pm to AUstar
quote:What did Moore say, unless I'm missing it.
As an atheist conservative, I don't find it offensive when someone says what Moore said. This was the view that most of the founders had.
Posted on 9/28/17 at 8:31 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
And I don't know of Chuck Todd said that it was given by government, since that's solely dependent on the OP being accurate and honest;
Well. I mean. You could just watch Todd yourself
Posted on 9/28/17 at 8:33 pm to ShortyRob
quote:Yeah. I edited after I realized that I saw the typical prog filth comments and moved on to the discussion and forgot to watch the video. That was a pointless inclusion on my part anyways.
Well. I mean. You could just watch Todd yourself
My point is that too many people, on both sides, want the exteme and ignorant views to exist on the other side. Many leftists want the white supremacists to exist and to at least seem more prominent than they really are. So they can use that to feel morally superior and feel like they fighting some important battle.
Many in the right want there to be the prog filth, and want to make sure they seem as prominent as possibly, so they can do the same.
This post was edited on 9/28/17 at 8:40 pm
Posted on 9/28/17 at 9:04 pm to CptBengal
The constitution does not grant rights. It prevents the government from infringing upon those rights.
Posted on 9/28/17 at 9:04 pm to uway
quote:
quote:
There's no such thing as a "natural" right
This is how Communists justify starving millions of people in the name of the common good.
Exactly. Are you really surprised that statement came from the likes of him?
Posted on 9/28/17 at 9:13 pm to CptBengal
Slavery is unconstitutional. Slavery is also biblical. There are biblical laws regarding slavery, and those laws are not, “don’t own slaves”.
So, if you want to argue, as Moore does, that all of our rights come from the Christian God of the Bible, then you cannot also believe that liberty is a right even for people not convicted of a crime.
So, if you want to argue, as Moore does, that all of our rights come from the Christian God of the Bible, then you cannot also believe that liberty is a right even for people not convicted of a crime.
Posted on 9/28/17 at 9:24 pm to airfernando
quote:
Then Jefferson should have had the integrity and decency not to concede on an issue so important. The bottom line is that our founding fathers were gigantic hypocrites at best, evil at worst.
So you would have proposed instead? No DOI, live under continued tyrannical rule, communism, ? This framed the basis for future generations to stop the bad things that were in place.
Fricking Utopian idiot.
Posted on 9/28/17 at 9:24 pm to TigahFrosh
quote:
So, if you want to argue, as Moore does, that all of our rights come from the Christian God of the Bible, then you cannot also believe that liberty is a right even for people not convicted of a crime.
Logical fallacy
Posted on 9/28/17 at 9:26 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
My point is that too many people, on both sides, want the exteme and ignorant views to exist on the other side.
Dude. Chuck Todd is some random trailer whore or ghetto gang banger.
And he ran a whole fricking segment with multiple parties involved that basically was a "Moore doesn't know the constitution" while using his utterly 100% factual comments as evidence.
Let's not pretend Todd is the left's equivalent of Nazi skinheads. You need to be better than that.
Posted on 9/29/17 at 12:18 am to ShortyRob
Where is it written in a recognized sacred text that God has granted we Americans or all humans a laundry list of rights? Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are only three of many rights suggested in that document. I understand many if not all our FF's thought our rights came from God but that remains their opinion with no firm religious basis. I respect their opinions, but I realize that that idea is simply an opinion.
Posted on 9/29/17 at 1:05 am to CommoDawg
quote:
There's no such thing as a "natural" right
Why should I believe you?
Posted on 9/29/17 at 1:09 am to airfernando
quote:
We have 2 unconditional rights and one conditional right. We have the right to die and to be judged.
Ummmm....free will. To make our own decision (especially with salvation).
Posted on 9/29/17 at 1:32 am to CptBengal
Thank you F. Chuck Todd for learnin' us about the Constitution.
You moron.
You moron.
Posted on 9/29/17 at 2:16 am to airfernando
quote:
I'm as much a Christian believer as you will find. I see nothing in God's word that says God has granted these so called inalienable rights as stated in DOI. We have 2 unconditional rights and one conditional right. We have the right to die and to be judged. We also have the right to pass from judgment to life if we accept Jesus as savior.
Jesus said his followers would be persecuted and many would be killed for following him. How does anyone rectify that with the belief of God giving us the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
As a luke warm Christian with no evangelical bent whatsoever, I am offended by your silliness.
I don't think you know what a 'right' is. You seem very confused.
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