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Started By
Message
re: Suicide among Custer’s soldiers.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 9:04 pm to PT24-7
Posted on 4/23/18 at 9:04 pm to PT24-7
quote:
I’m currently reading a book about the frontier in the late 1700s and the torture used by the Indians was savage. You definitely didn’t want to get captured alive
Hijack
What’s the name of the book?
TIA
1
Posted on 4/23/18 at 9:22 pm to AnorexicGator
Made a visit last summer to Little Bighorn. Thoughts run thru your mind of what went down. Quite humbling to say the least.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 9:24 pm to tWildcat
quote:
Did Custer underestimate the number of Indians there were or just how hard the Indians would fight?
I was bored a few nights ago and went down this rabbit hole by binge watching some documentaries on Youtube. A couple things to consider.. First, at some point during the journey to find the Indian encampment, Custer's men apparently were ordered to turn in their sabres, and these were sent by wagon back to the fort. Secondly, the men were armed with single shot rifles, while a good many of the Indians were armed with repeating rifles.
As Custer approached the encampment, he split his force of 600+ men into three columns, significantly reducing his firepower. he then ordered one column to attack the south end of the camp. This attack was eventually repelled and forced to retreat into the woods. When Custer's main force began to attack the camp, they first had to cross the river. This is significant because by all indian accounts the camp wasn't heavily defended at this point because most of the warriors were at the south end of the massive camp fighting off the first attack. According to their accounts this attack fell apart in the river because the soldier's chief as they described him was killed very early as they began to cross. It can't be confirmed, but there is speculation that the man the Indians claimed to have killed was quite possibly Custer himself.
After the main attack fell apart in the river, Custer's men began falling back towards higher ground to form a defensive parameter. The problem here is that despite holding the higher ground, the terrain below them provided perfect cover for the Indians. Unbeknownst to the soldiers, they were slowly being surrounded. As the soldiers found themselves in a close combat situation, the single shot rifles they carried couldn't match the fire power of the repeating rifles the Indians were carrying.
Short version: Nothing about this battle played into Custer's favor. They were facing a much larger than anticipated force, they were outgunned, and despite holding the high ground, the surrounding terrain favored the Indians. It also doesn't bode well in their favor is Custer was indeed killed very early in the battle.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 9:39 pm to Marciano1
quote:Me, too. We went to the Little Bighorn Battlefield National Monument three years ago.
That battle has always fascinated me. From the top of those hills, I guess they never could've imagined so many Sioux warriors were hidden in those trees along the river.
It was fascinating walking along the river bank where Custer led his men into the trap caught between a classic pincer move by the Sioux & Cheyenne warriors. All Custer could do was lead his men away from the river where the main Indian force was massed up the long (almost 3/4 of a mile) incline that became known as Last Stand Hill.
The battlefield is dotted with headstones, for both Indians and Army soldiers, where eyewitnesses later said men fell and died.
Just below the crest of the hill is the main area of headstones, including Custer's. The remaining main body Custer's men never made it to the crest because just as a few of the lead troops reached the highest ground, a second line of Sioux and Cheyenne warriors attacked from behind the crest forcing Custer's men to retreat a short ways back down the hill to form the defensive circle that became the Last Stand.
That completed the encirclement of the remaining Army troops along with quite a few civilians, including newspaper reporters who went with the troops to write about the calvary's exploits.
I highly recommend that anyone interested in the Battle of Little Bighorn go visit the battlefield. It's very difficult to describe the shear size of the area the battle was fought on. We were there almost 3 hours and I felt like I didn't get to see it all.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 10:06 pm to LSURussian
quote:
It was fascinating walking along the river bank where Custer led his men into the trap caught between a classic pincer move by the Sioux & Cheyenne warriors. All Custer could do was lead his men away from the river where the main Indian force was massed up the long (almost 3/4 of a mile) incline that became known as Last Stand Hill.
What are you talking about? By all accounts none of what you just said was accurate. He didn't lead his men into a trap where Indians were waiting. He split his forces, attacking the south end of the camp first with Major Reno. Indian accounts also say the camp was lightly defended when the main attack started, but fell apart in the river.
Here is an eyewitness account from White Cow Bull LINK
quote:
White Cow Bull said: "The other soldiers were shooting at us now. The man who seemed to be the soldier chief was firing his heavy rifle fast. I aimed my repeater at him and fired. I saw him fall out of his saddle and hit the water."
Then an amazing thing happened. White Cow Bull said as soon as the officer on the "sorrel horse with... four white stockings" hit the water, the American charge came to an immediate and complete halt in the middle of the river. White Cow Bull said Custer's men "all reined up their horses and gathered around where he had fallen."
Posted on 4/23/18 at 10:09 pm to ELESHU23
quote:
I guess we all died a little in that damn war
I reckon so
Not missed. There is iron in your words.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 10:18 pm to tWildcat
quote:
Did Custer underestimate the number of Indians there were or just how hard the Indians would fight?
Custer was also out gunned. The Indians were shooting Spencer and Henry repeating rifles while his men had Springfield Model 1873 Carbines. ( Which tended to jam with repeated firing )
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 10:20 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 10:26 pm to AnorexicGator
Posted on 4/23/18 at 10:32 pm to highcotton2
Custer was offered a Gatling gun to take on his expedition and turned it down.
Posted on 4/23/18 at 10:33 pm to Blizzard of Chizz
quote:If you want to bitch take it up with the National Park Service. I was repeating what their digital audio tour described at the site as we walked up the hill from the river.
What are you talking about? By all accounts none of what you just said was accurate.
If you prefer a different version over theirs, that's okay with me.
quote:What I wrote about happened after he split his men. From the crest of Last Stand Hill you can see about a mile and a half to the south where Reno and his men engaged the warriors along the river. He was supposed to come reinforce Custer to the north where Custer led his part of the calvary but he wasn't able to fight through the Indians.
He split his forces, attacking the south end of the camp first with Major Reno.
Again, if you like a different version, good for you.
Eta: Custer's headstone in the dark background below the crest of Last Stand Hill. General Custer's civilian brother's headstone was not far away.
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 10:55 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 10:42 pm to keakar
quote:
scalped you while still alive...
It was not out of the ordinary in 19th century warfare for suicide to be contemplated when dealing with savages.
“When you’re lying wounded on Afhganistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle,
And blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier.”
This post was edited on 4/23/18 at 10:48 pm
Posted on 4/23/18 at 10:45 pm to weagle99
quote:
Custer was offered a Gatling gun to take on his expedition and turned it down.
He likely would have survived, since it would slow him down enough that he never found the Indians.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 12:46 am to Jim Rockford
2000 mounted Indians with Henry and Winchester rifles and bows and arrows against 280 guys with no cover and every 4th man could not fire because he was taken from the line and had to hold 3 other trooper’s horses and his own. It was over astonishingly quick.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 6:09 am to AnorexicGator
quote:Dismemberment and mutilations, these were the ones that were captured alive, possibly badly wounded, but alive.
22 soldiers had skeletal damage consistent with dismemberment, scalping or other mutilations.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 6:18 am to Jim Rockford
From what I recall, Custer could not transport the Gatlin guns because of the hilly terrain. Per the curator on site.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 6:33 am to beachdude
quote:
“When you’re lying wounded on Afhganistan’s plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Just roll to your rifle,
And blow out your brains,
And go to your God like a soldier.”
If I have rounds in my rifle I'd be blowing the women's brains out.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 8:37 am to eScott
These are my favorite types of threads on the OT
Posted on 4/24/18 at 8:52 am to PearlyBaker
quote:
Yes it is, if you walk the battlefield you can see clusters of 2-4 grave markers where guys made a last stand with their buddies
Posted on 4/24/18 at 9:29 am to Tigeralum2008
As others have suggested, a visit to Little Bighorn Battlefield is highly recommended. I was in Billings on business a few years ago with some extra time. I debating going to Little Bighorn, but it made a big impression on me and would love to go back to spend more time there. Immersing yourself in the terrain and looking around imagining the Sioux and Cheyenne coming over the hills instills a very strong "oh shite" feeling in you even today.
Posted on 4/24/18 at 9:36 am to Jim Rockford
quote:
Most accounts say Custer was hit early in the battle and things fell apart from there.
there are some pretty strong indications, from post masacre interviews, that he was killed, or mortally wounded before the battle began
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