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re: So does any leftist on this board honestly believe Ukraine can win the war?
Posted on 3/5/25 at 8:46 am to RoosterCogburn585
Posted on 3/5/25 at 8:46 am to RoosterCogburn585
quote:
If the answer is no, then why are they so adamant the fighting continues?
Because the war was never about winning. It was always about bleeding Russia so badly that the NWO advancement could continue its eastward march. There was a secondary motive of making money in the usual MIC way, too. But no one ever thought they were going to beat Russia.
1
Posted on 3/5/25 at 8:52 am to RoosterCogburn585
quote:
So does any leftist on this board honestly believe Ukraine can win the war?
How could anyone believe the American colonies could defeat the British Army?
Well, my money and support is always on anyone who is fighting for their existence against foreign rule.
Posted on 3/5/25 at 8:54 am to Penrod
quote:
Because the war was never about winning. It was always about bleeding Russia
I'm willing to entertain the idea that NATO wants to weaken Russia, but to what end? Are we afraid that Russia is going to firmly align with China, so Russia must be neutered? Does Putin trust China more than he does the West? If this is all about realignments, I'd be looking for ways to improve relations between Russia and the West, not make them worse.
Posted on 3/5/25 at 8:54 am to dgnx6
quote:I wish that were true.
Russia wants peace talks.
Actually, Putin wants Ukraine surrender talks. Big difference.
Don't take my word for it. Kremlin spokesman Peskov said just a few weeks ago that Russia would keep fighting until all of its original objectives were achieved.
It doesn't get any clearer than that...
Posted on 3/5/25 at 8:55 am to RoosterCogburn585
Only with American troops on the ground.
Posted on 3/5/25 at 8:57 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
What does a "win" look like for Ukraine? They are never getting Crimea back.
There's a less than 5% chance they will ever get the Donbas region back. It's really about where the new lines are drawn.
If a "win" to to you means regaining all their land from 2014 or even 2022, the answer is no.
The best they can hope for now is to limit the amount of land lost.
That's essentially the point I made in a thread the other day.
If "winning" for Ukraine is defined by pushing Russia back behind the pre-war lines then the only way that happens is through direct involvement of US troops. Period. Trump has shown he isn't interested in starting wars, so that possibility is extremely remote.
In other words, the reality of Ukraine's "winning" is that they lose land. How much they lose depends on how long they want to wait before going to the table to sign a peace deal as Russia has the ability to eventually wear them completely down. They and their supporters will need to understand that any deal will likely have two mandatory parts Russia will not negotiate on:
1. Ukraine does not enter NATO
2. Russia keeps much (or all) of the lands they have taken
Posted on 3/5/25 at 8:58 am to sta4ever
Because Zelensky wants to try to beg for more money and weapons. That’s the only reason he’s been sitting down with Trump at all.
Putin is wanting peace talks but not while a guy like Zelensky is on the other side. Putin knows Zelensky is faking any kind of peace negotiations.
Putin is wanting peace talks but not while a guy like Zelensky is on the other side. Putin knows Zelensky is faking any kind of peace negotiations.
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:00 am to sta4ever
quote:
How does Ukraine want to keep on fighting? Are they the aggressor in this or something?
Zelensky sounded like the agressor last Friday.
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:00 am to TBoy
quote:
Well, my money and support is always on anyone who is fighting for their existence against foreign rule.
Most people don’t have a problem with Ukraine defending themselves. We’ve sent enough money, it’s time for that money to stay in our country. Same for Israel
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:00 am to LSURussian
quote:
Kremlin spokesman Peskov said just a few weeks ago that Russia would keep fighting until all of its original objectives were achieved.
It doesn't get any clearer than that...
Clarity would mean knowing with certainty their original objectives. Would Russia consider a land corridor to Crimea and an agreement that there will be no NATO membership/security force for Ukraine sufficient?
This post was edited on 3/5/25 at 9:07 am
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:11 am to sta4ever
Were you to acknowledge the US contributions/provocations that led to the current crisis, you may be taken seriously. You can't ignore the failure to account for hundreds of billions of dollars in US "aid", and the calls for more $$$, when it's abundantly clear Ukraine has zero chance for victory.
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:12 am to RoosterCogburn585
Not a leftist.
I’m right of center on religion, social issues, fictional institutional racism, DEI=DIE, ABCXYZ+-= is immoral, their are only two genders and sexes and anything in between is either a physical and/or mental abnormality.
I’m also anti BRICS, N Korea, and Iran.
Can the Ukrainians win this war? Yes.
Will the Ukrainians win this war? Probably not.
Can the Russians win this war? No!
Even if Russia occupies 100% of Ukraine they’ve already lost.
1-Strategically
A) Russia saw NATO expand into the critical Baltic Sea and Arctic with the addition of Sweden and Finland.
B) Moldova’s pro-EU President Maia Sandu has claimed a second term after a tense election run-off seen as a choice between Europe and Russia, with 55% of the vote.
C) China is starting to realize that expansion into Asiatic Russia might be a possibility.
D) The Baltics and Poland are physically isolating Kaliningrad.
2-Economically
A) Close to a million young Russians fled to avoid the draft. Russian demographics cannot afford the loss of one youngster. Another half to three quarters of a million young men have been physically wounded or killed. And who knows the mental toll on this critical demographic?
B) Western capital, technology, and talent have fled. Western industry and workers will think extremely hard about reentering Russia.
C) Russia’s most profitable energy sales were natural gas sold to the West through pipelines. Most of these pipelines are destroyed or easily destroyed by Ukraine.
D) No one trades in the ruble. It is dead. Russia has wasted Western currency trying to prop it up during the war. They have no capital to continue the war past 2025. Worse they have no capital to rebuild their economy from war to peace except predatory China.
E) After fossil fuels, their next most profitable export was military equipment. This war demonstrates just how behind their crap is from Western equipment is.
F) Russia now lacks the technical know how to maintain there frozen eastern oil field that supply China and India.
3- Morale
A) Conscription and casualties have fallen on their Asian population in the East. This worsens the relationship with their Slavic overlords.
B) Conscription and casualties are now becoming more West after the N Korean failure. This is creating anti war feelings that are being temporary suppressed by forced government silence through fear. It’s possible the government can suppress this indefinitely, but if it fails the pressure will cause an explosion.
C) State corruption has been exposed in its depth and breadth! No one knew how extremely widespread and all encompassing it actually is. This has 2 devastating impacts upon the Russians. First, the West and China now realizes the myth of Russian competence and power. This raises the real question of the state of maintenance and actual deployability of their nuclear forces. Second, the Russian people are now aware of the same mythology and implications.
4- Future potential
Putin’s Russia has no good path forward in the near future. They have made their demographic problems worse. They have pissed away decades of savings from fossil fuels in three short years. They have revealed their military impotence to the world including China. They only have predatory Chinese capital for rebuilding. Their people now know their weakness, government suppression, and corruption.
I’m right of center on religion, social issues, fictional institutional racism, DEI=DIE, ABCXYZ+-= is immoral, their are only two genders and sexes and anything in between is either a physical and/or mental abnormality.
I’m also anti BRICS, N Korea, and Iran.
Can the Ukrainians win this war? Yes.
Will the Ukrainians win this war? Probably not.
Can the Russians win this war? No!
Even if Russia occupies 100% of Ukraine they’ve already lost.
1-Strategically
A) Russia saw NATO expand into the critical Baltic Sea and Arctic with the addition of Sweden and Finland.
B) Moldova’s pro-EU President Maia Sandu has claimed a second term after a tense election run-off seen as a choice between Europe and Russia, with 55% of the vote.
C) China is starting to realize that expansion into Asiatic Russia might be a possibility.
D) The Baltics and Poland are physically isolating Kaliningrad.
2-Economically
A) Close to a million young Russians fled to avoid the draft. Russian demographics cannot afford the loss of one youngster. Another half to three quarters of a million young men have been physically wounded or killed. And who knows the mental toll on this critical demographic?
B) Western capital, technology, and talent have fled. Western industry and workers will think extremely hard about reentering Russia.
C) Russia’s most profitable energy sales were natural gas sold to the West through pipelines. Most of these pipelines are destroyed or easily destroyed by Ukraine.
D) No one trades in the ruble. It is dead. Russia has wasted Western currency trying to prop it up during the war. They have no capital to continue the war past 2025. Worse they have no capital to rebuild their economy from war to peace except predatory China.
E) After fossil fuels, their next most profitable export was military equipment. This war demonstrates just how behind their crap is from Western equipment is.
F) Russia now lacks the technical know how to maintain there frozen eastern oil field that supply China and India.
3- Morale
A) Conscription and casualties have fallen on their Asian population in the East. This worsens the relationship with their Slavic overlords.
B) Conscription and casualties are now becoming more West after the N Korean failure. This is creating anti war feelings that are being temporary suppressed by forced government silence through fear. It’s possible the government can suppress this indefinitely, but if it fails the pressure will cause an explosion.
C) State corruption has been exposed in its depth and breadth! No one knew how extremely widespread and all encompassing it actually is. This has 2 devastating impacts upon the Russians. First, the West and China now realizes the myth of Russian competence and power. This raises the real question of the state of maintenance and actual deployability of their nuclear forces. Second, the Russian people are now aware of the same mythology and implications.
4- Future potential
Putin’s Russia has no good path forward in the near future. They have made their demographic problems worse. They have pissed away decades of savings from fossil fuels in three short years. They have revealed their military impotence to the world including China. They only have predatory Chinese capital for rebuilding. Their people now know their weakness, government suppression, and corruption.
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:18 am to sta4ever
quote:
How does Ukraine want to keep on fighting?
Because the people with the power to end the war are not the ones fighting the war. Considering how many fighting age men fled the country, I don't think the average Ukrainian ever wanted to figh.
quote:
Are they the aggressor in this or something?
They are the pawns of globalist scum who have antagonized Russia for 2 decades. Ukrainians are suffering and dying so people like you can "stick it to the Russians" from the comfort of your home.
This war could have ended 2 years ago, but people like Biden and Boris Johnson needed more wealth, and people like you, unaffected by the war, needed more death to satiate your bloodlust.
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:41 am to VADawg
quote:
They will go 100mph in the opposite direction of anything Trump says. He could say "remember to wear a lifejacket" and fifty leftists would drown by sunrise.
I really think he ought to start doing PSA safety messages on TV and the internet, for agencies like NHTSA and such. "Buckle Up" "get some exercise" "eat healthy"
And just watch the reactions come in. You know the View ladies, Jasmine Crocket, Pelosi, Stephanoplos, etc.. are all going to explode... "who does he think he is telling us to buckle up, I dont have to if I dont want to!!!!"
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:43 am to dgnx6
quote:
I don’t think Ukraine does.
My guess is that IF the Ukrainian people were allowed to vote honestly on it with no interference, they would vote for a Peace agreement now.
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:45 am to RoosterCogburn585
They keep moving the goal posts. Our resident loon TexRidder now supports European troops on the ground in Ukraine. Is there any doubt he will eventually call for your sons and daughters to go there to die for nothing?
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:50 am to Mickey Goldmill
quote:
The best they can hope for now is to limit the amount of land lost.
The best they can hope for is to settle where the lines are now. If they wait longer Russia will take more land.
Ukraine is a lost cause. Especially with the US not sending more money or weapons. But Z doesnt want that to happen because if its over then martial law is ended and he is overwhelmingly voted out of office.
All that can be done is end the war and stop the bleeding.
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:51 am to TBoy
quote:
How could anyone believe the American colonies could defeat the British Army?
Uhh.. if the UK wasn’t an ocean away and their citizens disconnected from the colonies.. the colonials more than likely wouldn’t have.
If the UK was as close to the US as, say, Cuba, the Revolution may have been a disaster. The US still didnt have a big answer for the UK in 1812.
Posted on 3/5/25 at 9:56 am to Lord of the Hogs
quote:
Putin is wanting peace talks but not while a guy like Zelensky is on the other side. Putin knows Zelensky is faking any kind of peace negotiations.
Couldn’t the Ukrainians and Zelensky think the same thing about Putin and Russia though? How can you be so certain that Putin isn’t faking the peace negotiations? I mean, he’s yet to sit down with any politician for negotiations, from the US or West. If he’s so serious about peace and really wants to stop all the dying, then why doesn’t he seem to be in any hurry to come meet with everyone? Deals can only be made by sitting down with one another and making assurances. Everyone has done those things except for Putin, who also directed his military to invade another country, but he wants peace not war, am I right?
Posted on 3/5/25 at 10:16 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
Unless the West is willing to mobilize, train, and equip a huge military force to send to Ukraine, then it’s pointless for Ukraine to continue fighting
I get the impression that many of our fellow Americans and many leaders of the EU want this to happen - American war-fighting ground combat units deployed to the Eastern Front to fight the Russian Army. That's just my impression.
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