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Posted on 7/2/24 at 11:05 am to RemouladeSawce
quote:
We can't really cultivate a national identity with players all over the place in Europe
A more prevailing reason is that because of our confederation, we have to play two different styles. One is a possession based style where carving out chances against a low block is paramount. The other is the style that gets you results at large international tournaments, which is to be extremely pragmatic in your set-up. It requires a herculean effort to be good at both styles. Top teams in better confederations can have more cogent systems because the variance in quality between their opposition in and out of confederation is small.
None of this excuses the standard of play under Berhalter, though.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 11:07 am to Tigerstark
quote:
Whats the proper talent vs. national identity balance?
Soft players are soft until they get a coach that pushes them. It is painfully obvious that Gregg is too chummy with the players and that lackadaisical attitude permeates the whole team.
Too often this team looks like they use US games as their recreational time off from their regular job.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 11:45 am to mizslu314
quote:
Shulte is coming to save us.
I honestly think Brady, Slonina, and especially Kochen are more likely to come good, but probably not in time for 2026.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 11:46 am to cwil177
quote:
Slonina
Need him to start making a big jump.
I know that's kind of unfair to ask of a 20 year old keeper, but frick man, we're kinda in trouble with our current pool.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 11:48 am to Broski
He plays more consistently than any other keeper we have in Europe. Started all season for Eupen in Belgium and had some solid performances especially late in the year. Kochen making the Barca bench as a 17 year old has really flown under the radar. Sadly he was injured for the concacaf championships and the U17 WC.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 11:52 am to cwil177
The limited highlights I saw of Gaga at Eupen... he was either posting a clean sheet with some nice saves/distribution or he was getting 4 scored on him.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 11:52 am to michael corleone
quote:
1) This team is not as athletically talented as the top 6-8 teams in the world. In fact it is not even close. The lack of speed across the board is glaring. We have one guy that can drive with pace and everyone in he world knows it. Until youth soccer figures out a way to retain the best athletes beyond middle school age we will never be able to compete with the world. The best athletes in every other country play soccer. The best athletes in the US do not play soccer beyond 10-12 years old. A large part of that is because youth soccer discourages multisport participation around 11-13 years old. Kids simply walk away if the competitive coach / org tries to force them to play only soccer. This US team has only one finisher. He happens to be the same game who is the fastest. The rest of the world knows it. No one that plays the US is fearful of the other 10 beating them or otherwise scoring on them.
I agree somewhat but GGG didn’t set his tactics up to suit the players. There is a lot more to squeeze out of this group.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 11:57 am to Tigerstark
This team is missing a Clint Dempsey type of badass who would sacrifice life and limb to win a game for the USA and was not afraid to muck it up with these dirty fricking Latin American teams like Panama.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 12:06 pm to VADawg
quote:
This team is missing a Clint Dempsey type of badass who would sacrifice life and limb to win a game for the USA and was not afraid to muck it up with these dirty fricking Latin American teams like Panama.
Meh, Pulisic literally put his family's future on the line to score a World Cup goal that sent us to the knockouts and Wes wants all the smoke when it comes to shithousery, which is why a Mexican is always choking him.
So while we definitely have guys with those characteristics, I think there is an overall quality that we're missing. I'm not sure exactly what is, but it has felt like the last few years, when we take a lead, we're more times than not going to win. However, should we ever go down a goal, it often feels like we're done.
That's something that I didn't always necessarily feel with past USMNT's, no matter who the opponent was. The 2002, 2006, 2010 and 2014 cycles never felt like they were out of it.
I think that lost generation that would've been in its prime for the 2018 cycle really fricked shite up because there was no carry over to pass on those values. Yeah, Pulisic and Ream played with Dempsey, Jozy Bradley, etc. but that's it. After the 2018 fiasco we, rightfully, pressed the eject button and started from scratch by focusing exclusively on getting the young guys ready for 2022, but they also didn't really have a mentor to pass on what playing for the USMNT is all about so they kind of had to learn on their own.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 1:07 pm to lynxcat
Do you watch the matches? Do you watch defenders rundown our guys when they have an opportunity to break away? Do you watch how our players can’t create or separate themselves from fast and physical defenders. By the Fifth minute rolled around and yesterday yesterday’s match, we had only taken three shots in the game. Do you think that was simply because of coaching ? I watched the France and Portugal matches yesterday. Both of them had multiple players who could separate themselves from a defender vertically and horizontally. You do not understand athleticism if you do not understand the simple concept that SPEED kills. It doesn’t matter whether it’s horizontal or vertical, either way creating separation in a sport where one has to defend another is the difference between winning and losing most of the time. We cannot create separation across the board offensively. That is a freaking fact Unless you watch the matches with your eyes closed or through red white and blue glasses. Every year the NFL combine has at least 30 guys who are objectively bigger, stronger and faster than the top 3 guys in USA competitive and college soccer of the same age. Imagine if those 30 guys played competitive soccer from the age of five through 22 and develop the skills necessary to play at a high-level. This is what happens in every other country, but the US.
I’ve never seen or heard of a middle school football coach telling a 10–13 year-old to exclusively play football. In fact, most football coaches strongly, encourage participation and other sports. You generally see this mandate in baseball and soccer. Girls volleyball, but I am not as familiar with competitive use volleyball.
The one who refuse to acknowledge this simple issue are the ones in control and the diehard fan base. Just because you played soccer doesn’t mean you know a thing about athletics or what it takes to be world-class in any sport. There is a reason the USA fared poorly in international competition between 1985 and 1991 – – – – our best athletes were not playing international basketball during this time frame. Rather, they were playing in the NBA. Once our best athletes began to play international basketball in 1992, we destroyed everyone in our path. Once USA soccer realizes that its needs better athletes to compete with the elite in the world , it will do whatever it takes to recruit 10-13 year olds to remain involved in soccer or incentive them to exclusively play it. Too many great athletes are pushed away from the game simply because they want to play 2-3 sports as long as possible.
I’ve never seen or heard of a middle school football coach telling a 10–13 year-old to exclusively play football. In fact, most football coaches strongly, encourage participation and other sports. You generally see this mandate in baseball and soccer. Girls volleyball, but I am not as familiar with competitive use volleyball.
The one who refuse to acknowledge this simple issue are the ones in control and the diehard fan base. Just because you played soccer doesn’t mean you know a thing about athletics or what it takes to be world-class in any sport. There is a reason the USA fared poorly in international competition between 1985 and 1991 – – – – our best athletes were not playing international basketball during this time frame. Rather, they were playing in the NBA. Once our best athletes began to play international basketball in 1992, we destroyed everyone in our path. Once USA soccer realizes that its needs better athletes to compete with the elite in the world , it will do whatever it takes to recruit 10-13 year olds to remain involved in soccer or incentive them to exclusively play it. Too many great athletes are pushed away from the game simply because they want to play 2-3 sports as long as possible.
This post was edited on 7/2/24 at 1:20 pm
Posted on 7/2/24 at 2:59 pm to michael corleone
quote:
I watched the France and Portugal matches yesterday. Both of them had multiple players who could separate themselves from a defender vertically and horizontally. You do not understand athleticism if you do not understand the simple concept that SPEED kills.
But both are also well-drilled teams where the point is to limit their offensive players defensive responsibilities. In other words, those teams are built to allow their offensive players to stay up the field for a multitude of reasons, but namely to get them the ball in dangerous positions. Not only that, all of their players have technical levels far beyond most teams in the world.
quote:
It doesn’t matter whether it’s horizontal or vertical, either way creating separation in a sport where one has to defend another is the difference between winning and losing most of the time. We cannot create separation across the board offensively.
In soccer, you can easily create separation through technical skills alone. Predominantly, that is the way players create space for themselves. Unless you believe that a player like Bernardo Silva is outrunning people. And what you don't seem to get is that both France and Portugal have a long tradition of producing unbelievably technical players, who later can express their athleticism because they understand how to use the ball, where to receive the ball, how to receive the ball, and most importantly, when they can gain an advantage from the reception of the ball and when it is better to play the ball back.
quote:
Every year the NFL combine has at least 30 guys who are objectively bigger, stronger and faster than the top 3 guys in USA competitive and college soccer of the same age. Imagine if those 30 guys played competitive soccer from the age of five through 22 and develop the skills necessary to play at a high-level. This is what happens in every other country, but the US.
Well historically, we have had among the fastest, most athletic teams at these international tournaments. You don't need to be a particularly athletic person, in the sense Americans understand it, to excel at soccer. What you do need is insane levels of stamina, which is the baseline athletic skill in the sport, not explosive power. Where we fall behind is that our technical skills are just not at the level they need to be. We've had literal track athletes play soccer and be unable to control a ball.
We have plenty enough athletes who no other sport is competing for, as generally soccer favors athletes with lower centers of gravity rather than height or muscle mass outright. We don't have a cogent system of teaching technical skills. The French, in contrast, do, as they took great effort to reorganize their youth system in the late 80's, setting up 12 finishing schools across the country, including perhaps the most famous academy in football, Clairefontaine. We only recently, within the last ten years, developed a decent enough youth system through the MLS, but to make that last step is going to require consistent investment.
To put it in perspective, in 2000 when Germany decided to reorganize their youth structure, they spent upwards of 1 billion a year to upgrade facilities, add coaches, institute training standards, among other improvements, in an effort to not fall behind other European nations. Without several years of investment of that magnitude, we won't catch up.
quote:
The one who refuse to acknowledge this simple issue are the ones in control and the diehard fan base. Just because you played soccer doesn’t mean you know a thing about athletics or what it takes to be world-class in any sport
Let's be real, you don't either. Soccer selects for a different type of athlete regardless, but what is important is this: we have to do a better job of imparting technical skills to the player pool as it stands, as we aren't suddenly going to be filled with superstar athletes (however you might imagine them). And what is to stop those players from becoming the next Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain, a player with pace, power, technique, but with an injury record which meant he could never shine for a long period of time?
This post was edited on 7/2/24 at 3:02 pm
Posted on 7/2/24 at 7:48 pm to crazy4lsu
We will agree to disagree, however, USA soccer continues to operate at the youth level in the same manner year after year. The result remains the same. I have grown to both love and appreciate this game over the last 20 years. As a competitor in other sports , the weaknesses of the youth soccer system are obvious.
Youth soccer costs too much money. You pay to play. Youth football is much cheaper , if any real cost. Many teams are associated with parks and rec leagues. Others with schools. Even at the MLS prep level you pay to play in order to be scouted.
Speed (vertical and horizontal ) kill. You missed my point. Give me two players of equal technical skill and the faster player will beat the slower player the majority of the time. The US doesn’t NOT have its best athletes playing soccer. Anyone who denies this is too blinded by their youth soccer experiences to admit that the majority of better athletes play other sports. At best, soccer is the 3rd choice amongst elite athletes at the High School level. It is the only choice for elite athletes in every other country.
Until USA soccer becomes the 1st or 2nd choice for elite HS athletes , the US will never be relevant in international soccer. This should be the goal of USA soccer.
Youth soccer costs too much money. You pay to play. Youth football is much cheaper , if any real cost. Many teams are associated with parks and rec leagues. Others with schools. Even at the MLS prep level you pay to play in order to be scouted.
Speed (vertical and horizontal ) kill. You missed my point. Give me two players of equal technical skill and the faster player will beat the slower player the majority of the time. The US doesn’t NOT have its best athletes playing soccer. Anyone who denies this is too blinded by their youth soccer experiences to admit that the majority of better athletes play other sports. At best, soccer is the 3rd choice amongst elite athletes at the High School level. It is the only choice for elite athletes in every other country.
Until USA soccer becomes the 1st or 2nd choice for elite HS athletes , the US will never be relevant in international soccer. This should be the goal of USA soccer.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 7:52 pm to michael corleone
quote:
USA soccer continues to operate at the youth level in the same manner year after year. The result remains the same.
Just because you're not seeing any change at your local YMCA or other glorified youth day care, doesn't make this true.
We're still far behind like crazy said, but our youth academy system has grown exponentially in the last 7 or so years.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 8:10 pm to Broski
Is this new Soccer Forward initiative going to address any of these issues or is it just a “we have to do this to look good” thing leading into the World Cup?
Posted on 7/2/24 at 8:33 pm to michael corleone
Robinson and Weah are elite speed guys. Balogun rarely runs 40 yard sprints but he has top end speed as well. BA and CP are more quick than fast over long distances but they are far from slow.
I think the premise of your rambling is bogus.
I think the premise of your rambling is bogus.
Posted on 7/2/24 at 8:36 pm to michael corleone
quote:
Until USA soccer becomes the 1st or 2nd choice for elite HS athletes , the US will never be relevant in international soccer. This should be the goal of USA soccer.
This is simply wrong just from the fact that we have a greater population than numerous countries than already win at the highest level. US population is 330M with roughly 100M households. France has a population of 68M. If 1 in 5 kids in America plays soccer then we have the same size talent pool as France (assuming 100% of France plays the sport which is probably reasonable given popularity).
This post was edited on 7/2/24 at 8:38 pm
Posted on 7/2/24 at 11:36 pm to michael corleone
quote:
Speed (vertical and horizontal ) kill. You missed my point. Give me two players of equal technical skill and the faster player will beat the slower player the majority of the time.
Great. Until we actually can impart world-class technical skill, the athleticism of the player is pointless. We’ve seen this in practice with a whole slew of American players who looked like physical specimens but had the touch of amateurs.
There is a tried and true method of youth development in soccer. It has worked in every country where it’s been employed. That youth development model is more important than recruiting the best athletes.
This post was edited on 7/3/24 at 8:53 am
Posted on 7/3/24 at 1:34 am to michael corleone
Maybe look at it this way. Take any world class players mother when she was pregnant with the player and transport her to the USA. She gives birth to a frank ribery or an Eden hazard in a city here. Athletic for sure, no one will take that away, and also built for soccer. Would they have become even close to who they were growing up here? Unequivocally no. It’s nurture not nature. No professional soccer player in the world could play in the nfl, nba, etc. they would be instantly destroyed or outplayed. It’s nurturing them towards being built for the sport. We have the athletes we just don’t have the institutions. Many of our players are “faster” than the other teams. Speed isn’t everything
Posted on 7/3/24 at 9:53 am to michael corleone
quote:
Do you watch how our players can’t create or separate themselves from fast and physical defenders.
that is the problem, and always has been for us.
We don't have quality guys that can score. Dempsey wasn't some athletic freak, but he knew how to score.
Pulisic is the only guy on the team with speed, creation, and knows how to score, and like you said, everyone knows that, which is why he's constantly getting fouled.
We've never had a true goal scorer on the USMNT. Dempsey is the closest thing. Hoping Balogun can become that guy. We hoped Altidore would, but that didn't happen. But even if Balogun can be that guy, he's just one dude. We just lack that special talent up front that every other team seems to have. and it doesn't need to be the fastest guy special talent, just a guy that knows how to score and create chances to take some pressure off of Pulisic.
and i agree with you that we need more speed as well. You could clearly see this last game that Pulisic is faster then most on the field, and gets to balls that the defender has an angle on him. He's the only guy like that.
If Balogun can be that scorer we need up top, and Pulisic can stay on the right side of him, and we can find some speed to put on the left side, then we'd have a serious attack to create more chances to score.
One of the few guys i love seeing out there b/c he plays how i want an American soccer player to play is Josh Sargent. He is balls to the walls when he comes in and you know you're getting every single ounce of his will to win when he plays. We need more of that.
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